Hi,

Any kids out there? I have a 15 year old nephew. He is very computer savvy. In fact, so savvy he is causing havoc. He has made his desktop unrecognizable (and very slow) with ResEdit. He even "created" a virus. True it was an Apple Script virus and simple. But sent one computer to the shop and one I fixed. I have been thinking he should be doing something on the computer to challenge his adolescent mind or we may be visiting him in kiddie jail for hacking into the Pentagon. :-}

Anyway, I downloaded it and can't really make heads or tails of it. I should say I am pretty computer savvy myself. I am in my 50s and know what an RPG is.
And I helped invent the internet with Al. I used to play MOOs and MUSHes when they were text based! Actually I am a bit of a geek-- just an aging one. :-}

So can a kid figure this thing out?? Perhaps I am not predisposed to understand it. I downloaded the tutorial and PoG, but keep getting a type 3 error on it. ( iMac OS 9.1, 333 mHz, 96 megs of ram). I thought maybe if I followed a tutorial...

I thought about the Legos Mindstorms but he is absolutely opposed. I think he is just way too cool at his age, maybe when he is 20. I also thought about RealBasic. I did figure that out a bit, but it doesn't look like something he would have much fun with, yet. Any other ideas? Please help me here.

Thanks,

--des

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desdemona-

We have several confirmed kids checking into the Coldstone boards regularly. I know at least two of them have admitted to being twelve, and they don't seem to be having any more trouble with Coldstone than us "adults". (The word "adult" should never be without quotes.) I personally would have killed for this kind of thing at 15.

myshkyn

PS watch out for Iago

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"I'll give the fans just what they want, and nothing else at all."

(This message has been edited by myshkyn (edited 12-11-2002).)

desdemona

Im 15 years old to and i figured out on my own how to work with Coldstone and English is not even my native language (i live in Switzerland). Coldstone is quite easy to understand so it shouldnt be a problem, and if there are any questions this Webboard is a good place to start.

You mentioned RealBASIC, i use it myself and have a lot of fun with it. It`s very easy to understand (i would start with the tutorial). I tought myself how to use it.

I hope this will help you and your son.

Panopticon

*I hope my English is understandable"

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Quote

Originally posted by desdemona:
Perhaps I am not predisposed to understand it. I downloaded the tutorial and PoG, but keep getting a type 3 error on it. ( iMac OS 9.1, 333 mHz, 96 megs of ram). I thought maybe if I followed a tutorial...

Mr. Desdemona,

As I mentioned in my reply to your post in Help is on the Way, the Type 3 error in PoG is due to not having the latest version of Carbon Lib. Grab it here and install it and all should be good.

Quote

So can a kid figure this thing out??

Probably better than us...

Quote

I used to play MOOs and MUSHes when they were text based

Bah. Moo is what a cow does, and mushes are, well, mushy. MUD's were the thing back then and there are a few still going strong today(one that I helped administrate/code on I'm proud to say).

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I tried a mush, but it seemed boring and chatty. I think a MUD would be fun, if ever I get around to it. Never tried a Moo...

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Originally posted by Bryce:
I tried a mush, but it seemed boring and chatty. I think a MUD would be fun, if ever I get around to it. Never tried a Moo...

All joking aside the differences between MUDS/MUSHES/MOOS/MUCKS are strictly code-based. Typically the code helped decide what type of atmosphere you were going to provide, but I've seen some very social MUDS and some very hack and slash MUSHes. However the code of a MUD generally made it easier to hack and slash while the code base of a MUSH was generally more social. But it just depended on what the powers that be that ran the system wanted from their game.

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Yeah, but it sounds so -- I don't know -- intimate?

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-- Debra
Danillitphil Productions

Quote

Originally posted by desdemona:
Any kids out there? I have a 15 year old nephew. He is very computer savvy. In fact, so savvy he is causing havoc. He has made his desktop unrecognizable (and very slow) with ResEdit. He even "created" a virus. True it was an Apple Script virus and simple. But sent one computer to the shop and one I fixed. I have been thinking he should be doing something on the computer to challenge his adolescent mind or we may be visiting him in kiddie jail for hacking into the Pentagon. :-}

I shall now officially admit to being guilty of aging only as far as 14 years. Kill me now. Edit: sneak into your nephew's room and rebuild his desktop. If you haven't already tried that.

Quote

Anyway, I downloaded it and can't really make heads or tails of it. I should say I am pretty computer savvy myself. I am in my 50s and know what an RPG is... So can a kid figure this thing out?

Keep in mind that Coldstone, while pretty user-friendly, is not a game itself. If you want the kid to be able to understand it, I'd suggest he sit down and read the manual. At least the basics of the engine and a few of the simpler editors, such as the Item and NPC Editors (no reason to swamp the kid with the Animation Editor yet!). Once he understands it, you can pretty much let him go under his own steam, and if he's interested, he'll learn more about Coldstone on his own (preferably via the manual ).

Quote

I thought about the Legos Mindstorms but he is absolutely opposed. I think he is just way too cool at his age, maybe when he is 20. I also thought about RealBasic. I did figure that out a bit, but it doesn't look like something he would have much fun with, yet. Any other ideas? Please help me here.

I have LEGO Mindstorms (of course, coolness has never been much of a barrier for me ). I never used it much, mostly because I couldn't get it to work. RealBASIC is excellent if he wants to start coding, but it also means that when he's starting to feel the walls of that box, he — or the parents, or you — will have to bite the bullet and shell out the cash for a "real" compiler — preferably CodeWarrior Learning Edition, which has hardly any limitations and is only about $60.

My advice would be to see how he likes the Coldstone demo. If he's ready to move on soon after... then he must get into the messy business of spending money on computer programming books (I know of a few excellent ones, email me at wolvenstudios@evula.org if you want a list) and learning how to deal with code. Or you/he could take a look at the (url="http://"http://www.garagegames.com/")Torque Game Engine(/url), a $100 3D action game framework with a GUI and script editor. The only real problem with Torque is that you also need a number of other apps to fill your content needs, such as 3D modelers.

Hope this helped.

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(This message has been edited by Cafalll (edited 12-11-2002).)

Thanks everybody for the help. The carbon library didn't unstuff properly so I will have a go at it later today.

Yes MUSHes can get MUSHy but I had fun on the Rudgers one which had some opportunites for getting virtually drunk, and so on. There was assorted virtual sex, but gosh it is safe. It was easy to create your own environment and add to the whatever it was. A MOO has all sorts of objects to interact with and is not social at all. I tried the Xerox PARC one. Very silly kept landing in the dungeon.
The only way to get out that I ever figured out was cutting off my connection.

Back on topic:
Is there more graphics on the CD?? Medieval is nice but it is so, well, Medieval. He will definitely like something more anarchist and violent. Modern war would be nice; inside fights ala some of those assorted violent video games he plays; or perhaps an alien landscape. I noted some downloads.

As per drawing your own, any cheaper 3d packages or can you use just regular scanned work? And is this explained? He draws pretty well. He likes to invent guns, for example. Can you take Sims images or anything like that? He loves that game btw.

I think this would be a nice start. If he likes it he likes it, and if not, he can go on and we can try some other stuff.

Thanks for the advice on this young lad's iMac. I had the idea to rebuild the desktop. hehehe. He watches what I touch. Keeps saying don't touch that extension!!
I have prolly saved mom hundreds of dollars in computer repair, but that leaves the hundreds I didn't save!

As per the "adult" in quotes I think this is a good idea. I am not always sure about me, and I thought of making a Harry Potter rpg. Or at least environment that you could walk around in and meet up with various critters and so on. Any nice 3 headed dogs available? Also if someone wanted to get me the Mindstorms thing, I would not object.

BTW, there is no Mr. desdemona. This is from Jimmy Buffet's song about desdemona building a rocket ship. My friends think I my be an extraterrestrial.

--des

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Quote

Originally posted by desdemona:
BTW, there is no Mr. desdemona. This is from Jimmy Buffet's song about desdemona building a rocket ship.

Oh dear, and I was thinking that your name came from Othello. Hrm.

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I happen to be 13. BTW, Mac OS X would probably be a better present if he's as much of a 'computer guy' as you say I'm on Jaguar and it's cool.

Anyway, I used the tutorial and with a little webboard help I can do basically whatever I want in CS. I'm more into Java programming right now, but I got CS for my birthday back in February.

As for getting it for him...yes, definitely. I got GameMaker (http://members.aol.com/alstaff) two years ago and made a couple (bad) games with it. It's very easy to use, but it might not be very interesting to a 15 year old. Coldstone would probably be a good choice.

If he doesn't already have some kind of 3D modeling/rendering thingy, get him Meshwork (http://www.codenautics.com/meshwork) and download POV-Ray (http://mac.povray.org). Meshwork does the modeling, POV-Ray does the rendering. Of course, POV-Ray's got a huge manual, but reading the first 2 sections should suffice to be able to render the Meshwork files.

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Quote

Originally posted by desdemona:
**
BTW, there is no Mr. desdemona. This is from Jimmy Buffet's song about desdemona building a rocket ship. My friends think I my be an extraterrestrial.

--des

**

Des

Dont mind Stark's he's overly formal not sexist, he dosent truly believe everyone who post here is male. (might be his fantasy though)

stray

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Quote

Originally posted by desdemona:
Is there more graphics on the CD?? Medieval is nice but it is so, well, Medieval. He will definitely like something more anarchist and violent. Modern war would be nice; inside fights ala some of those assorted violent video games he plays; or perhaps an alien landscape. I noted some downloads.

There is a futuristic set; I've looked at it, and it's a bit limited. Unlike the Medieval set, the Futurstic isn't ripped from a real game, so it doesn't have the specifics — for example, it doesn't have a tough-looking macho cyborg for your main character sprite. However, it should get him started; the graphics it does include have many variations, so he can pick not only from a house, but from ten different house models... etc.

Maybe your nephew will be forced to come up with something original.

Quote

As per drawing your own, any cheaper 3d packages or can you use just regular scanned work? And is this explained? He draws pretty well. He likes to invent guns, for example. Can you take Sims images or anything like that? He loves that game btw.

There's Strata3D, which is free. It's not particularly easy to model organic shapes, but it's free and has a pretty generic interface. There is only one problem with this: the package was discontinued a while ago. The closest you'll get is Strata3D Base, which is very stripped-down in comparison to Strata itself. There are still copies on various unofficial servers, however. If you want, I will temporarily host it for you.

The alternative is that he can draw it by hand and scan it into the computer — it doesn't make any difference to the engine.

Quote

As per the "adult" in quotes I think this is a good idea. I am not always sure about me, and I thought of making a Harry Potter rpg. Or at least environment that you could walk around in and meet up with various critters and so on. Any nice 3 headed dogs available?

I shudder at the thought of a Harry Potter RPG... or not. Just don't tell EA Games, or they'll make a halfhearted attempt and botch it up, like they did with their other Harry Potter games.

Have you downloaded the demo? If so, download it and get PoG working, then he can make some plug-ins to see how he likes the engine. Or he could make a simple game using "programmer graphics" (programmer graphics are really crappy graphics which programmers make and use until they can get better art done). Just see how he likes the program before you worry about art.

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Hi Cahill, etc.

For some reason the engine refused to quote all your post. Much as the tutorial doesn't seem to be cooperating either. (or maybe I am screwing up, but gosh I can't figure out how). Oh well.

Is there more graphics on the CD?? Medieval is nice but it is so, well, Medieval.

There is a futuristic set; I've looked at it, and it's a bit limited. Unlike the Medieval >set, the Futurstic isn't ripped from a real game, so it doesn't have the specifics — >for example, it doesn't have a tough-looking macho cyborg for your main character

Well you can't have everything!!

Maybe your nephew will be forced to come up with something original.

Yep, as long as he doesn't explode anything in RL (real life).

As per drawing your own, any cheaper 3d packages or can you use just regular

There's Strata3D, which is free. It's not particularly easy to model organic shapes,
but it's free and has a pretty generic interface. There is only one problem with this: >the package was discontinued a while ago. The closest you'll get is Strata3D >Base, which is very stripped-down in comparison to Strata itself. There are still >copies on various unofficial servers, however. If you want, I will temporarily host it >for you.

It would be appreciated, thanks. I downloaded Meshworks (recommended by someone and I got a few files but no program). Something is definitely wierd on my downloads lately!!

Of course, 3D is difficult (or was the last time I tried it) and I am pretty good at the 2D stuff. But keep in mind this was on a 8 mHz Amiga 500!

I shudder at the thought of a Harry Potter RPG... or not. Just don't tell EA Games,

Hah! They are all over the net. Though I haven't seen any of them. I don't play them but I think it would be interesting to do.

or they'll make a halfhearted attempt and botch it up, like they did with their other >Harry Potter games.

Well the screen shots were not inspiring. (I mean on EA).

Have you downloaded the demo? If so, download it and get PoG working, then he >can make some plug-ins to see how he likes the engine.

Well I downloaded it. But keep in mind we don't really live together. Lucky for me!!!
He is my nephew and not my son, which is a darn good thing. But as I have said I find it difficult. I have been following the tutorial and haven't gotten far. I am not sure if something is wrong as I got some error messages while unstuffing it. So maybe something is missing.

It is not all unusual looking to me, though. I have played around with hyperlinking and scripting software (HyperStudio) and some things that were on my Amiga. I did recognize some of it. I just couldn't make it work.

Or he could make a simple game using "programmer graphics" (programmer >graphics are really crappy graphics which programmers make and use until they >can get better art done). Just see how he likes the program before you worry >about art.

That's a great idea. Might work for my Harry Potter idea.
Or a couple other wierd ideas I have. Though my question on that would be this (what a sentence), I downloaded a cute little concentration type game (not that personally I am interested in such a concept) but apparently the program is not limited to making RPGs. Is there anything in the manual re: other types of games??

I have thought now that I am sufficiently frustrated that I will buy the darned thing. If he doesn't like it, then I play with it and continue to frustrate myself til I get it. #!@!!**
This sometimes works.

--des

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Quote

Originally posted by straytoaster:
Dont mind Stark's he's overly formal not sexist, he dosent truly believe everyone who post here is male. (might be his fantasy though)

THWACK

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I myself am 14, and I use Coldstone. Although I don't know your son, if he likes computers, then give it a shot. Creating a game was what I use to dream of. If he likes graphics, then he might have more fun with them. But he seems like he might be more a mathematical person, and he might enjoy real basic more.

Quote

Originally posted by desdemona:
**And I helped invent the internet with Al.
**

Is that you Mr. Gore? ( Sorry, couldn't resist. :D)

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Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool.
"Logic is futile"-Scott Adams

Hey desdemona, I am 15 as well and I really love this CGE! I only had to play with it a few times to really get the hang of it. In fact, my buddy who is co-creating a game with me and has never used CGE before I showed it to him says I am a pro, and I guess I am. As for your nephew, since he is so good on the computer, he should have no trouble figuring this thing out. It's very easy. Now, let me tell you something about becoming better at CGE that I probably shouldn't because there's people on the forums who wrote the tutorial. I have never used it to make a game. In fact, I never looked at it once. I think the best way to get to know CS is to create a new game using the medeival interface. There should be already a very short starter game. All I reccomend is to play this out a few times, and then mess around with it, and see how they did things. Add some stuff in, too, if you think you can. This really is, for me, the best way to get to know CGE, and i reccomend doing this to anyoone instead of running through the tutorial, which I've heard, has some errors in it anyways. (Sorry all you people affiliated with the tutorial.) I hope I helped, and guys, be merciful.

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I'm not laughing at you,
I'm laughing with you in
mind

Well OgreBob, this is a great idea (just writing a game and not worrying about the manual) if you are say 15. I'd say you have an advantage of sorts. But being old enough to be your mom (now is that a scary thought . Now imagine mom reading this board :-)). Or not. Anyway, I couldnt' make heads or tails of it. And did not get so far. There aren't too many programs I have found this for, but some of those had the advantage fo having third party books written by writers and not computer geeks. (Much as I love them and all. :-)) I'm sure they will fix the errors,
but what they really need is someone like me who will come read it all and say "come again?". Not to mean any disrespect. But what might make perfect sense to a tech writer may not make perfect sense "for the rest of us".

Anyway I am sure going thru the medieval set is the way to figure it out yourself, if you could do this but what I started with was the map. I redrew the map, and added neat little things. I think it's a spiffy little map. But I'm not sure I learned anything very important. For example, they talk about layers, but I am familar with layers from Illustrator, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they work the same.

OTOH, though not perhaps culturely familiar enough with computers as you might be, I will take on my 15 year old nephew any day at fixing problems. Creating them, I don't hold a candle.

Ms (for Mr ? Stark's sake) des

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If he's good with resedit then register EV Nova and tell him to see if he make any good plugins.

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(quote)Originally posted by desdemona:
I am sure going thru the medieval set is the way to figure it out yourself, if you could do this but what I started with was the map. I redrew the map, and added neat little things. I think it's a spiffy little map. But I'm not sure I learned anything very important. For example, they talk about layers, but I am familar with layers from Illustrator, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they work the same. (/quote)

It's all explained in the coughcough manual. Not the game tutorial, but the user manual which should come with the demo.

OTOH, though not perhaps culturely familiar enough with computers as you might be, I will take on my 15 year old nephew any day at fixing problems. Creating them, I don't hold a candle.(/B)(/QUOTE)

That's what developers are for — we do both.

Have you showed it to your nephew? I'd like to hear about his reaction.

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