Greetings, Andrew, and thanks for your great games and input to the Apple Game Dev. mailing list.

But where do we Beta Buyers stand in this transfer?

I purchased Beta v8 Coldstone (for $30.00) back in May with the understanding that the engine would be forthcoming by late summer... It is now Oct. 12th, I've received no update or upgrade for the beta engine since May. As we all know, beta 8 is not in any way useable to produce an even semi-playable game.

Is there any reasonable expectation of satisfaction/enjoyment on the near/distant horizon?

skip

Obviously this is an situation that predates Ambrosia's involvement with the product, so I'll let Dee chime in on this topic.

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Andrew Welch / el Presidente / Ambrosia Software, Inc.
(url="http://"http://www.AmbrosiaSW.com/~andrew/")http://www.AmbrosiaSW.com/~andrew/(/url)

Quote

Originally posted by SkipMeier:
**
But where do we Beta Buyers stand in this transfer?
**

Those who previously registered Coldstone will receive a free registration code when the final version will be out. Since version 1.0 will be released under a new license agreement, you will have to accept the terms of this agreement. If you are not satisfied with it, you will be refunded without any problem.

One thing I can tell is that you will not be disapointed by the final release, it's much more powerful then what you may have experimented with the latest public version!

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Dee Brown
Coldstone Game Engine developer
Beenox inc. - (url="http://"http://www.beenox.com")www.beenox.com(/url)

I wish that I could litter this reply with smileys, winks, (ggg)'s and other such indicators of 'no-rancor'. Alas... You will just have to accept on faith(?) that I'm not too irritated.

There are many reasons one has to purchase 'beta' products... I shall not list them.

I purchased Coldstone beta 8 because I wanted to participate in the evolution of a product that, in my opinion, had GREAT promise. I wanted to beta test. I still do.

Beta 8 was so incomplete that it was very difficult (read impossible) to do enough with it to even test it. It was pre-alpha. So I waited for documentation to allow me to proceed at least with the creation of tile set(s) to set up a world. There was nothing.

I've been involved with this stuff since 1964... an IBM 1401... Apple )(... Mac... Education software... Legal Software... PC's (shudder)... Newspapers (keyboard to press). And always games.

Thanks for the free registration code. But I also wanted to have input on the creation of the product... Using 24 bit graphics, animation, quicktime, sound and music all lead to a finished game that is destined for CD distribution, not internet shareware.

Will Coldstone have all the above PLUS a 'shareware' simplicity? Or is this too idealistic for the creator of 'Nanosaur?'

Why were you, Dee, charging $30.00? I do not care about the amount... it is the principle. What was I spending money on? Certainly not the 'finished product'. I could have just waited for it. And Dee, a new license agreement? Andrew?

And Andrew, why fall back on 'situations that predate?' This doesn't sound like the Ambrosia that I thought I knew. And all 'situations that predate' the present created the present... No if's, or's or but's.

Peace

Skip

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...it wasn't me...

Quote

Originally posted by SkipMeier:
**
Will Coldstone have all the above PLUS a 'shareware' simplicity? Or is this too idealistic for the creator of 'Nanosaur?'

Peace

Skip

**

Who are you saying created Nanosaur? Cool game, btw.

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And so the problem remained; lots of people were mean, and most of them were miserable, even the ones with digital watches. Many were increasingly of the opinion that they had all made a big mistake in coming down from the trees in the first place. And some said that the trees had been a bad move and that no one should ever have left the oceans. - Douglass Adams

Quote

Originally posted by SkipMeier:
**

Why were you, Dee, charging $30.00? I do not care about the amount... it is the principle. What was I spending money on? Certainly not the 'finished product'. I could have just waited for it. And Dee, a new license agreement? Andrew?

And Andrew, why fall back on 'situations that predate?' This doesn't sound like the Ambrosia that I thought I knew. And all 'situations that predate' the present created the present... No if's, or's or but's.
**

Neither I nor Ambrosia was involved with the project until very recently; as such, I don't think I'm in a position to answer for Dee what he did or did not promise to people who bought the beta version.

That said, we'll gladly refund your money, give you a free license code for the Ambrosia-released version, and do anything else within reason to ensure you're happy with the transition. What would make you happy?

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Andrew Welch / el Presidente / Ambrosia Software, Inc.
(url="http://"http://www.AmbrosiaSW.com/~andrew/")http://www.AmbrosiaSW.com/~andrew/(/url)

Quote

Originally posted by SkipMeier:
**
There are many reasons one has to purchase 'beta' products... I shall not list them.

I purchased Coldstone beta 8 because I wanted to participate in the evolution of a product that, in my opinion, had GREAT promise. I wanted to beta test. I still do.

Thanks for the free registration code. But I also wanted to have input on the creation of the product... Using 24 bit graphics, animation, quicktime, sound and music all lead to a finished game that is destined for CD distribution, not internet shareware.

Will Coldstone have all the above PLUS a 'shareware' simplicity? Or is this too idealistic for the creator of 'Nanosaur?'

**

First, I will clarify something, I am not the creator of Nanosaur, it's Brian Greenstone from Pangea Software. We only worked with him for his latest game, CroMag Rally.

Coldstone is intended to be a simple and powerful development tool. This means that features like movies, animations and 24 bits graphics are at your disposal but you don't absolutely have to use them. For example, when you have to associate a picture to something (let say a character), you always have the choice to select either a standard picture (which can be 8 bits if you want) or an animation. It's up to you to make a simple shareware or a more complex commercial game with more time consuming stuff like movies.

People who registered Coldstone in the past helped to make this product a reality. The product is now back in closed development but like we said in the FAQ, when the beta will open, chances are that you will receive an invitation to be part of the beta testing.

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Dee Brown
Coldstone Game Engine developer
Beenox inc. - (url="http://"http://www.beenox.com")www.beenox.com(/url)

(This message has been edited by Dee (edited 10-12-2000).)

Quote

Originally posted by SkipMeier:
I purchased Beta v8 Coldstone (for $30.00)

Uh...does this mean that prices are increasing again? Its nice for a profit, but it makes it harder for some of us "other people" to register-we have to save up more than before. Also, $30 is the low end of many commercial products...

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Quote

Originally posted by Avatara:
**Uh...does this mean that prices are increasing again? Its nice for a profit, but it makes it harder for some of us "other people" to register-we have to save up more than before. Also, $30 is the low end of many commercial products...

**

We have made no announcements about the price of Coldstone. Also keep in mind that Coldstone isn't a game; it's a tool to make games.

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Andrew Welch / el Presidente / Ambrosia Software, Inc.
(url="http://"http://www.AmbrosiaSW.com/~andrew/")http://www.AmbrosiaSW.com/~andrew/(/url)

Thank you Andrew and Dee for your speedy replies... and I withdraw my 'Nanosaur' allusion. My error.

I guess that most of us wish to participate in the creation of a great new product. Most have neither the time or the training to create from scratch, but still have the insight into what works and what doesn't. I saw tremendous possibility in Coldstone... I've experienced first hand the weaknesses of other attempts. I've failed in my own. I've watched software authoring prices skyrocket and suck the user into a never ending spirial of exorbitant 'upgrade fees'. I'm jaded and disgusted with the apparent lack of 'creativity for its' own reward' in the silicon jungles.

You both have my e-mail address... I wish to participate...

Dee's comment 'The product is now back in closed development' is what I thought that my $30.00 was buying me. Do I need to submit a resume?

Peace,

Skip

PS: Do you remember when Photoshop cost $95.00... Mathematica $150.00, Director was called Videoshop and cost $75.00... Basic interpreters came with the operating systems? Programma International?

Enough...

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...it wasn't me...

Quote

Originally posted by SkipMeier:
**

You both have my e-mail address... I wish to participate...

**

That's fair; when it goes to beta, you have a spot on the team.

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Andrew Welch / el Presidente / Ambrosia Software, Inc.
(url="http://"http://www.AmbrosiaSW.com/~andrew/")http://www.AmbrosiaSW.com/~andrew/(/url)

So, the great Ambrosia has decided to let in another company into its big web of people. You know, it really makes me wonder how long it will be before Andrew decides that CGE is too much of a threat to Ambrosia's financial future and impose in the new license that people cannot sell their games for any form of profit.
I, for one, cannot believe the injustice that may have been commited here, sure Ambrosia has much vaunted resources that it will surely be glad to lend to you, Dee, but I cannot think that the final product will be what you, or those who followed the development of CGE expected.
I think that we may have bitten off more than we can chew, and I will not believe otherwise until I see the final release and have carefully read through this promised new license agreement.

Quote

Originally posted by Legendblade:
So, the great Ambrosia has decided to let in another company into its big web of people. You know, it really makes me wonder how long it will be before Andrew decides that CGE is too much of a threat to Ambrosia's financial future and impose in the new license that people cannot sell their games for any form of profit.
I, for one, cannot believe the injustice that may have been commited here, sure Ambrosia has much vaunted resources that it will surely be glad to lend to you, Dee, but I cannot think that the final product will be what you, or those who followed the development of CGE expected.
I think that we may have bitten off more than we can chew, and I will not believe otherwise until I see the final release and have carefully read through this promised new license agreement.

Drat, you found out our plan! CGE has long been seen as a financial threat by our Board; only by driving the product into the ground can we possibly stand to continue on in our evil ways.

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Andrew Welch / el Presidente / Ambrosia Software, Inc.
(url="http://"http://www.AmbrosiaSW.com/~andrew/")http://www.AmbrosiaSW.com/~andrew/(/url)

Quote

Originally posted by andrew:
**Drat, you found out our plan! CGE has long been seen as a financial threat by our Board; only by driving the product into the ground can we possibly stand to continue on in our evil ways.

**

I've seen it happen Andrew. Perhaps I worry too much, or perhaps it is my personal vendetta against Ambrosia that drives me to conclusions. BTW, thanks for finally accepting EVO3, its not that I didn't e-mail Ambrosia multiple times asking for such a project to be done, as well as offer my assistance in seeing it through.

Quote

Originally posted by Legendblade:
I've seen it happen Andrew. Perhaps I worry too much, or perhaps it is my personal vendetta against Ambrosia that drives me to conclusions. BTW, thanks for finally accepting EVO3, its not that I didn't e-mail Ambrosia multiple times asking for such a project to be done, as well as offer my assistance in seeing it through.

Yes, well, clearly we pee'd in your cornflakes. I'm glad that's out in the open.

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Andrew Welch / el Presidente / Ambrosia Software, Inc.
(url="http://"http://www.AmbrosiaSW.com/~andrew/")http://www.AmbrosiaSW.com/~andrew/(/url)

(This message has been edited by andrew (edited 10-12-2000).)

Quote

Originally posted by andrew:
**Drat, you found out our plan! CGE has long been seen as a financial threat by our Board; only by driving the product into the ground can we possibly stand to continue on in our evil ways.

**

I KNEW it! I knew it all along! We were all right! Quick, where are the reporters?!

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We do not live to work, rather, we work to live.

The problem with you is that you keep trying to unscrew the unscrutable.
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i also purchased coldstone when it was beta, i also remember recieving a couple cds one with coldstone on it, the other with music. i also remember beenox saying that i would recieve another cd with every other release. Or something to that effect, that doesnt apply anymore does it?

i wouldnt mind to be on the beta list
stosh steward

Quote

Originally posted by andrew:
**Yes, well, clearly we pee'd in your cornflakes. I'm glad that's out in the open.
**

I'm not eating cornflakes anymore!

Anyway, if you do decide to send it out on CD, can you also post it on the web-kinda like most of your products. Some of us have cable and to download 400MB in a matter of hours would be easy. (of course, if you leave it on while you go to work/school) You could do what you usually do, where we can't do much until we register, but also include seperately a demo if you send it out on CD.

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(This message has been edited by Avatara (edited 10-13-2000).)

I whouldn't mind being on the beta list, it sounds like fun. I like making thiengs....

hmm, i wish i could be on the beta team...

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DeAdBoY-
(url="http://"http://www.grybs.com/harzius")Harzius Productions(/url)
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