I've already posted a topic regarding this issue over at the Ares webboard, but this forum is where I'll be mostly likely to get the required help. Since my experience as a plugin developer exists only with the Escape Velocity games, I have no experience with Ares plugins. The Hera Application looks like a wonderful application (sure beats ResEdit ;)), but I really can't seem to learn the program at the moment, thanks to the many graphic projects I have going on. Therefore, I'm posting this topic to see if I can get some help. If any graphic projects are needed for this plugin, I'll happily do my best to do them. It's the programming I need help with...

Alright, this is currently the features I have in mind. Since I have yet to find a good net plugin which adds these features, I'd like to have something like this:

The Ishiman Heavy Cruiser is added to gameplay. They can be built during net play just like all the other Ishiman vessels, and cost slightly more than the standard Cruiser.

The Ishiman Escort (which I discovered inside Hera) is added to gameplay. I have no idea how powerful this ship is, but I'm sure it would improve the shipyard capabilities of the Ishiman.

Ishiman Defense Drone added to net play.

The Cantharan Schooner, Gateship, Heavy Cruiser, and Defense Drone added to net build list.

A level in which the Ishiman Mothership is the Ishiman base, and the Cantharan are attempting to destory the monster station.

Perhaps cloaked versions of the Ishiman Heavy Cruiser, Cruiser, and Gunship, but cost a plenty extra.

That's all I can think of at the moment, but I'm sure this can be done. If any of you guys would be up to helping create this net plugin (we could call it "Cantharan vs Ishiman"), it'd be great. Would make a good community project. Does this all sound good?

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

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To be honest there would be nothing new about this plug. The Ishiman escort and gateship are already in another plug-in.
I think it's a little too simple, needs somthing new.

(Then again im a perfectionist and won't stop till I've gone to far.)

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When the chips are down what do you do?
I find more chips.

(This message has been edited by Skyfox (edited 11-16-2001).)

Sounds good. I'll do it. It will only take a few days. I don't think any additional graphics will be needed

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Quote

Originally posted by brookeview:
**Sounds good. I'll do it. It will only take a few days. I don't think any additional graphics will be needed

**

Excellent, I appreciate it. I'm mostly heading up this project due to complaints concerning the issue at GameRanger. All the plugins that do support similar features are pretty much junk (from what I've seen and heard). Also, everyone liked the idea about the Ishiman mining system for additional resources, so I certainly would like to see that come to be...

Take your time, there is no hurry. Once it's done and ready for testing, let me know and we'll try it out (via GameRanger?)

Also, if you have any other additional ideas about the plugin, let me know. I'd like to cram as much as we can into making the Cantharan and Ishiman a blast to play via multiplayer.

Again, thanks, and good luck.

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Stupid me, I forgot to mention the Ishiman mining feature! I've been told this will take time, but can be done...

As you all know, there is an Ishiman astrominer in the single player missions. However, I'd like to add this vessel to netplay within this plugin as a way of attaining additional resources. The Ishiman player can build astrominers, send them to the asteroid field(s), and have them blast the rocks into smaller pieces. Once the asteroid breaks, the pieces come toward the miner (instead of away, like in the single player mission). The astrominer can then take the pieces to a nearby occupied station or planet, and exchange the three pieces of collected rocks for three resources a piece (all in all, nine resources). Although this type of operation would certainly aid the Ishiman in attaining additional resources for the war effort, it would be highly dangerous against cloaked vessels and even "the mineral." (escorts would probably be necessary). However, should these astrominers be built and put into operation in numbers, they would prove highly effecient.

What do you think? You up to it, brookeview?

------------------
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Your welcome... I've been playing around with asteroid mining for a few days and haven't yet gotten it to work. I have all of Thanksgiving to work on it so I might have a beta by this time next week.

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Quote

Originally posted by brookeview:
**Your welcome... I've been playing around with asteroid mining for a few days and haven't yet gotten it to work. I have all of Thanksgiving to work on it so I might have a beta by this time next week.

**

Ah, so you've already been playing around with a Ishiman net mining feature? That's good. I hope you can get that functioning properly before Thanksgiving. I have all of next week off from school, so I should be around quite often to check for updates or answer questions.

Also, I'll probably be posting a few statistics as we go.

Here's the first:

Ishiman Escort - Heavy Fighter / Light Gunship

Speed: Slighty better than that of the Heavy Cruiser, with better turn rate. Designed to escort and protect astrominers. Has cloaking device.
Armament: Proton Torpedoes, with the same rate of fire as that of the Heavy Cruiser, and 200 rounds of ammunition. One laser turret (the standard green Ishiman laser), which operates exactly like that of the human laser turret.
Cost: 9 resources
Time to build: Same as the Heavy Cruiser

If you need anymore info on this ship, let me know.

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(This message has been edited by Captain Skyblade (edited 11-16-2001).)

Also, do you believe we could cram the Ishiman Schooner into all the mentioned features for the plugin? It could serve as a swift escort vessel.

Also, since we have so many ships that both Cantharan and Ishiman can build, is there any way we can create a scroll menu in place of the standard "build" window? I'm not sure if there will be enough room for the standard build menu to list all the ship classes...

Quote

Originally posted by Captain Skyblade:
**Also, do you believe we could cram the Ishiman Schooner into all the mentioned features for the plugin? It could serve as a swift escort vessel.

Also, since we have so many ships that both Cantharan and Ishiman can build, is there any way we can create a scroll menu in place of the standard "build" window? I'm not sure if there will be enough room for the standard build menu to list all the ship classes...**

For the escort I was thinking of something closer to the Obian escort seen in mission 2 of the original ares missions (I think). Yes including the schooner will be easy.
Each system will need more than one planet/moon/station to make all of the ships. I'll have a single player playable version (without out the asteroid mining) by midday tomorrow to show you. It is best to keep it single player until the end because converting it to multiplayer is not that hard and keeping it single player lest us see it without needing to play with someones else.

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More than one planet or moon per race I mean... (I can't edit my post or the second link in my sig goes crazy)

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Quote

Originally posted by brookeview:
**More than one planet or moon per race I mean... (I can't edit my post or the second link in my sig goes crazy)

**

Yeah, I know what you meant. No problem.

Also, due to there being too many ships for a single steller object to build, let's say that only stations (both types of stations, as long as they are in Ishiman hands) can manufacture astrominers, engineer pods, and escorts. The Ishiman planet is permitted to build all the other mentioned vessels. Sound alright?

As for the name of the plugin, I was thinking something along the lines of Cantharish. Of course, that's just an idea...

Were that stats I mentioned for the Ishiman Escort alright? Or do you need aditional information?

What exactly did you mean by "Obian Escort?" The graphics in mind for the Ishiman Escort was the one listed as such in Hera...

Ok, here's the statistics for the Ishiman Schooner:

Speed: Extremely fast. About the speed of the Audomeden Cruiser.
Armament: Two standard Ishiman laser (green) cannons (not turreted. This thing is like a heavy fighter escort craft).
Cost: 5 resources
Time to build: Same as the Ishiman Cruiser

Also, I noticed the "Ishiman Cargoship" in Hera, and I was thinking we could use this ship as an armed heavy transport craft for the plugin. However, only captured stations are permitted to build it (just like the astrominer, escort etc.).

Stats for the Ishiman Heavy Transport:

Speed: Same speed as the standard Ishiman transport
Armament: Two standard Ishiman laser (green) turrets, located in front and back sections of the ship. As for the Ishiman laser turrets, could you give them the same rate of fire as the laser cannons of the Ishiman Heavy Cruiser?
Cost: 6 resources
Time to build: Same as Ishiman Gunship

Please feel free to post any questions, or requests for additional information. I'd like this to be one heck of a net plugin.

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I'll be sending you my first try in a few minutes. Yes I was thinking of a single station in the middle that builds special ships. When one player or the other captures it he will get access to the special ships.

------------------
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Quote

Originally posted by brookeview:
**I'll be sending you my first try in a few minutes. Yes I was thinking of a single station in the middle that builds special ships. When one player or the other captures it he will get access to the special ships.

**

Good idea. Let's take the level "Between a Rock and a Rock" for example. There are two planets, one Cantharan and one Ishiman. The Ishiman capture the nearest bunker station, and therefore gain access to additional ships. The Cantharan capture their nearest bunker station, and build their own special vessels. But during gameplay, the Ishiman capture the Cantharan bunker station. Would the Ishiman be allowed to build their own special ships at this station as well (I assume that's what you were saying)?

I'm looking forward to receiving the plugin. Thanks for all the help.

------------------
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It should be there now. I sent in an email a few minutes ago.

------------------
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I just received the alpha net plugin a few minutes ago, and I must say I'm rather impressed with how far you've come in a single day. All the major items were working correctly.

Since you're the programmer, I'm sure you'll want me to bring you error reports and such.

I was unable to select my own two planets, although I was somehow enabled to build the escort, heavy cruiser, and schooner after playing around for a minute. Simply clicking or shift-clicking on the planets wouldn't work...

The Ishiman Escort's secondary weapons are the ones used by the Ishiman carrer. The red, proton bolts used by the Ishiman Cruiser and Heavy Cruiser are what I had in mind. It also needs the Ishiman laser turret (which automatically targets on hostile vessels, like the human laser turret), with the same rate of fire as the laser cannons mounted on the Ishiman Heavy Cruiser.

The Schooner seemed a bit too slow. Perhaps the speed of the Aud cruiser would be the idea. It's laser cannons were a bit slow in firing. Could we give it's laser cannons the same rate of fire as that of the Ishiman Heavy Cruiser?

Besides that, it's looking very good. I'm sure the mentioned errors haven't been corrected simply because you haven't gotten to that part yet, but over all, I'm impressed. Keep up the good work.

Ok, I noticed the "Ishiman Science Vessel" in Hera (the one seen in the single player missions), and I was thinking about using this vessel as a Heavy Gunship, which can only be built at captured places (not the player's original starting base). It's very large, but would make the net plugin all the better.

Ishiman Heavy Gunship
Speed: Rather slow, but slightly faster in turn and speed compared to the Ishiman Carrier.
Armament: Two of the red spherical weapons used on the Ishiman Heavy Destroyer, each mounted on the sides of the ship (600 rounds of ammo). Two of the bright spherical weapons used by the Ishiman Carrier (but not turreted. 600 rounds of ammo), as well as two of the yellow laser cannons (same ones used by the Ishiman Heavy Destroyer).
Speaking of the weapons, could we have the weapons which have limited ammo fired from the side of the ship, while the laser beams fire from the front portion of the ship?
Cost: 5 resources more than the Heavy Destroyer.

Again, good work. Keep it up.

Time to build: Same as the Ishiman Cruiser

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The reason you couldn't seemingly select a planet is because I haven't named them yet. To build from a different planet or station you just need to single click it. I'll name the planets in a little while and get started on some of the other ships.

I really don't want to put in that heavy gunship because there is no corresponding sprite for the Cantharan to use. Also there in no Cantharan sprite for an escort. We need to give both sides the same types of ships so that the two players can have their choice on which race they want to play.

------------------
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Quote

Originally posted by brookeview:
**The reason you couldn't seemingly select a planet is because I haven't named them yet. To build from a different planet or station you just need to single click it. I'll name the planets in a little while and get started on some of the other ships.
**

Bingo. Ok, I see now. I do realize that you can build ships at a particular planet by simply clicking on it, but the player might want to use a planet as the primary target, which is why I brought the matter up.

Quote

Originally posted by brookeview:
**
I really don't want to put in that heavy gunship because there is no corresponding sprite for the Cantharan to use. Also there in no Cantharan sprite for an escort. We need to give both sides the same types of ships so that the two players can have their choice on which race they want to play.
**

Actually, I've been thinking quite the opposite. We have to remember the Cantharan Gateship here. It will have incredible firepower, and I intend on giving it different firepower from the single player missions in Ares (things such as multiple flak turrets, lots of the red beam turrets etc... Ouch) Also, I might come up with some varients of the standard Cantharan vessels, such as upgraded cruisers and gunships (with different stats). Also, I'd like to give the Cantharan the mentioned mining feature as well. Since the Cans don't have a miner vessel, we could use the Ishiman astrominer sprite, only we convert the colors to green. If you don't have Photoshop and are enable to do this (playing with hue and saturation), I could give it a try.

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The Ishiman also have a gateship now... But I do like the idea of changing the gateships weapons a bit. Instead of the push back weapon I suggest the flak turret thing.

------------------
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Quote

Originally posted by brookeview:
**The Ishiman also have a gateship now... But I do like the idea of changing the gateships weapons a bit. Instead of the push back weapon I suggest the flak turret thing.

**

Well, I don't intend on giving the Ishiman a super-gateship. Even though the Ishiman do have a gateship (including graphics), this plugin would be a bit too one-sided.

Yeah, the flak idea would be cool. We could could give the Cantharan Gateship four flak turrets, all of which fire the same type of flak used by the Gunship.

Speaking of which, I was just playing around with the plugin, and the Cantharan built a Gateship. Sheesh, it took me ten minutes to get rid of the thing...

------------------
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By the way, how could I pull the astrominer sprite out of Hera and change the color to match that of the Cantharan ships?

Also, could we give the Cantharan Schooner two of the red lasers instead of one? It's current firepower is very weak.

Stats for the Cantharan Gateship:
Speed: Keep it where it is.
Armament: Four flak turrets (the kind of flak used by the gunship), eight of the Cantharan red beam turrets, and twenty Cantharan Fighters.
Cost: Sheesh, I don't know... How about two / three times more than the Heavy Destroyer?
Time to build: Twice as long as a Carrier.

------------------
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