Take a guess...

I'm corrently working on making Clavius and Beyond 3.33 compatible with rEVisited, but I was wondering if someone still had, for Mac EV Classic, Clavius and Beyond 3.32 (no s on the end) or 3.31. Either will do. I'm wanting to see if the writing and translation are better or worse. I'm also interested in what was meant by some commentary I found about adult themes in Clavius 3.31 and the non-s version of Clavius 3.32. Beyond that, I want some older source material to see what the outfit masses were vs what they are. I think some of the Clavius outfits are heavier than they were in the Classic EV plug.

Finally, does anyone know who did the rEVisited ships? I'd like to contact that person and see about the possiblity of having him or her redo the graphics of the unique ships which were added to the scenario. All except the Neutronic Kestrel. I've already gotten that redone courtesy of Guy, who graciously took his time to turn the small and larg Kestrel sprite images golden. The rEVisited style Neutronic Kestrel is positively dazzling.

Thanks in advance for any help all y'all can offer.

Well, I can't say that I played Clavius 3.2-or 3.1, for that matter, but the early "Neutronic Kestrel" plugin (which was last modified here on May 4, 1997) uses 40-ton neutronic turrets, as well as a 35-ton neutronic torpedo launcher and a two-ton neutronic torpedo.

I wouldn't really worry about it, though.

Just, heh, be sure to make the neutronic torps and turrets rock compared to the existing rEVisited guns-can't have the old tech go bad, after all.

Continued:
Hmmmm. From further research, it seems that 3.31 (and its successor) have basically faded away with DYNA Systems itself. DYNA apparently met its ultimate doom when iXoft (whoever they were) died off. It's not likely that much more can be learned, except that it isn't a good idea to go into business if all you make is an EV plugin.

The only real record that there ever was a change was the good ol' "Kudos and Criticism" article which referred to 2.0 and 3.1, which was apparently pre-3.2s/3.2, and identical to 3.2 in function. Your best bet, aside from looking at 3.2s, would be to dig up Clavius 2.0, but it isn't likely that you'll be able to find it anywhere.

Good luck, captain.

-Bob

Consul Bob, on Jun 3 2005, 07:51 AM, said:

Well, I can't say that I played Clavius 3.2-or 3.1, for that matter, but the early "Neutronic Kestrel" plugin (which was last modified here on May 4, 1997) uses 40-ton neutronic turrets, as well as a 35-ton neutronic torpedo launcher and a two-ton neutronic torpedo.

I wouldn't really worry about it, though.

Just, heh, be sure to make the neutronic torps and turrets rock compared to the existing rEVisited guns-can't have the old tech go bad, after all.

Continued:
Hmmmm. From further research, it seems that 3.31 (and its successor) have basically faded away with DYNA Systems itself. DYNA apparently met its ultimate doom when iXoft (whoever they were) died off. It's not likely that much more can be learned, except that it isn't a good idea to go into business if all you make is an EV plugin.

The only real record that there ever was a change was the good ol' "Kudos and Criticism" article which referred to 2.0 and 3.1, which was apparently pre-3.2s/3.2, and identical to 3.2 in function. Your best bet, aside from looking at 3.2s, would be to dig up Clavius 2.0, but it isn't likely that you'll be able to find it anywhere.

Good luck, captain.

-Bob
View Post

I edited/rewrote all the text for Clavius version 3. The translation for version 2 was pretty ropey, which is why they decided to involve me. It's just possible I have the original file on my 1997 Mac somewhere.

Regards

CaptJosh, on Jun 2 2005, 08:48 PM, said:

Finally, does anyone know who did the rEVisited ships?View Post

Just in case anyone is still unclear on this, the rEVisited ship graphics were all made by KMQ, who is now posting as KofQ. Many webboard regulars of the last couple years will remember drooling over his poster-like teaser JPEG showing overhead views of all his ships -- KMQ was the unidentified friend of Jericon who produced those models. Both Mac and Win versions of the plug for the Nova EVC port are now on the add-ons page. Discussion is on the EVN board, here.

By the way -- Martin, the revamp of the ASW 'boards messed with your sig so that your FH link now starts with "http://http//" and therefore no longer works.

This post has been edited by Dr. Trowel : 03 June 2005 - 07:30 PM

Dr. Trowel, I posted this and the other post at about the same time. That's why the same question is here. I already know and have asked KMQ, aka KofQ in the thread on the Nova boards. He doesn't seem terribly interested in redoing the 14 ships in there that really need redone to match up.

Martin, if you've got the time to find that old version of Clavius, please let me know when you find it and I'll give you an e-mail address to send it to. I can always open the sucker up with EV Edit under Basilisk II to get the info.

Ok, New post. Thanks to Destroyer E on the EV board, I now have Clavius and Beyond v3.32 for classic EV.

Ok, I know this looks like serious thread necromancy, but hey, I'm resurrecting development on Clavius rEVisited, so I might as well resurrect this thread to let you all know.

First of all, I'm sorry I made everyone wait so long. But I gave up for a while because of graphics. I still probably won't be able to redo the Clavius ships other than the Neutronic Kestrel (done for me from the rEVisited Kestrel) and the Shiruvan Sentinel (why mess with perfection). And then I lost the files in a system wipe and reload, so I've been working from scratch.

Secondly, if any of you ever do like I did and lose all your old files but come back to a project later thinking, "Hey, it'll be easier this time because now I know what I'm doing," you're wrong. Because now that I know what I'm doing, there's actually more to do. Things that I didn't even realize needed done the first time around, and things that I thought of after the file was gone, and still other things that have just occurred to me as I have started editing the plug again. Also, since you have an idea of the things you did, you'll probably do more without testing, which makes it seem like more work still, because of nothing to break up the monotony of editing resource after resource.

Finally, if anyone is good with graphics and modeling and would like to take on the task of remodeling the rest of the ships specific to Clavius and Beyond so that the meet up with rEVisited standards, I'd appreciate the help, and you would recieve credit in the plug. What I'd like is models on a scale with the rEVisited large ship sprites. even if you don't do the rotations yourself and just send top down shots of the models, I can work with that.

Note: I may be able to take care of the Starider myself by altering the rEVisited Corvette sprite. I'll keep you all posted.

This post has been edited by CaptJosh : 24 October 2006 - 05:10 AM

Ok, new update. Guy provided a freshly SpacePorted version of Clavius and Beyond to test working with. Depending on whether or not the promised changes over the original 3.33 port to nova format are better, I may scrap most of work I've already done (exported sprite images are saved elsewhere and will still be there so no duplicated effort on that part) and start on the newly converted one.

Note: I am working under Winduhs as I cannot afford a real mac to play with and I do not yet have a copy of OS 8.1 for my emulated Mac under Basilisk II.

This post has been edited by CaptJosh : 06 June 2008 - 01:49 PM

New update. No progress made as I have been entirely sidetracked. I'll see what I can do about some real progress.

@captjosh, on Oct 24 2006, 10:09 AM, said in Clavius rEVisited:

Finally, if anyone is good with graphics and modeling and would like to take on the task of remodeling the rest of the ships specific to Clavius and Beyond so that the meet up with rEVisited standards, I'd appreciate the help, and you would recieve credit in the plug. What I'd like is models on a scale with the rEVisited large ship sprites. even if you don't do the rotations yourself and just send top down shots of the models, I can work with that.

I have to ask, why would anyone go to the trouble of modeling the ships, only to stop with a top-down shot? Setting up the rotations is the easiest part of the entire process.

I suppose. I just didn't want to ask someone else to do ALL the work. Admittedly I'm the one changing resources around and everything so that it'll work with rEVisited, but still, I just didn't want to be like these guys who basically say, "Hey, I'm working on a new plug-in. Here, you guys do the work and I'll just put my name on it."

Ok, after discovering that I had lost the file Guy sent me, I contacted him and got it again, so I actually can resume development on this again. Anyone who wants to take a crack at reimagining the Clavius and Beyond unique ships (with the exception of the Neutronic Kestrel and the Shiruvan Sentinel), please let me know, I'll make sure you get what you need in ship dëscs and the original images to try. You WILL be credited in the About Nova text.

Also, if someone could do a menu screen to match up with the rEVisited menu screen that says something about Clavius rEVisited, that would be good. If you need an image of the neutronic Kestrel to play with, well, I just realized. I never had the guy who gave me the recolored rEVisited Kestrel to use as the Clavius Neutronic Kestrel do a new shipyard pic for me. I don't recall who did that for me, but if you could get me a good shipyard pic, that'd be good too. Thanks in advance.

Another thing I know I'll need is updated shipyard pics for all Clavius unique ships, but those would really have to wait for the re-imagined versions.

(And suddenly there's a little voice in my head asking, "What the hell have you gotten yourself into?" )

Started going over all the dësc resources. Lots of stuff to fix and some to totally rewrite. Because of poor translation (Sorry Martin), there are a number of places where things look just a little off, and others that just make me scratch my head and say, "Huh?"

So I'm trying to preserve the feel when I rewrite, but make it more understandable to english speakers like myself, who grew up on the language.

CaptJosh, perhaps you should post some example pics of Clavius ships as they exist currently, and of a couple rEVisited ships to show what you're aiming for. There may be graphics people out there who would be more easily inspired if they could see what you're talking about without having to download and crack open two different plugs.

Good point, Dr. Trowel. I should also show the original neutronic Kestrel vs Guy's handiwork wth the rEVisited Kestrel and turning it into a very nice new Neutronic Kestrel. I'll have to do that in my next post, though. I have too much up to do this right now.

Ok, as requested, I'm going to put up some comparison graphics so people can see what the difference between EV classic and rEVisited graphics are.

First on the list, the classic confed cruiser, then the 400x400 first frame of the full size rEVisited remake of that cruiser. A Note: the small size version that comes as default with the main rEVisited data is 200x200. The large image is the original as done by, IIRC, KMQ, and pulled from the ~Cruisers Large file.

The next set is the classic kestrel and original Clavius Neutronic Kestrel

And now the rEVisited Kestrel base and Clavius rEVisited Neutronic Kestrel base (thank you Guy for this last). Again, the dimensions for the smaller sized versions are halved. In this case these two images are 310x310, the smaller sized versions would be 155x155

I don't have nice pictures of the rEVisited ships or Clavius rEVisited Neutronic Kestrel with lights and glows because this was taking enough time already.

I hope this gives some idea of what sort of difference in graphics quality you'd be looking at in re-imagining the Clavius and Beyond ships. I'll need to gather data on the relative sizes of Clavius and Beyond unique ships like the Jumbostar and Korg vs Confed Cruisers and other similarly sized vessels, I would note that the NPPK Destroyer bears a striking resemblance to a Klingon B'rel class Bird of Prey and that might be an easy starting point for re-imagining it.

Ok, another update. I've finished going through the mission dësc resources and redoing them for the most part. However, the last line of the final clavius story mission makes no sense at all.

"When your foot inadvertently touches a piece of black silk, a little bug starts to dig into your mind..."

What the hell? What is that supposed to mean? It doesn't make any sense at all. There's no context for it anywhere in the rest of the plug.

Astria is wearing black silk? Incidentally, I've never noticed anything wrong with the readability of the descs. Can you give example of one and show how you've changed it?

You mean to tell me you never noticed they looked like they were in Engrish? Seriously.

How about the one where Astria sits in your lap and the next line is "You are looking at Lt. Hardin like an untimely brother."

That makes no sense either.

And to the best of my knowledge, no. I do not believe Astria is wearing any black silk. Even if she were, that doesn't explain the last part of that sentence.

And it's not readability so much as comprehensability. Sure, you can understand the mission objectives, mostly, but there's supposed to be a love story here, too. How can you have a love story if you can't understand the story? Also, a lot of the language just doesn't sound right for the people speaking it. Military officers, non-coms, and enilsteds have a clipped, formal manner of speech that seems the same the world over, regardless of language.

As for showing one vs how I changed a dësc vs how it started, ugh. You're going to make me search through an unaltered copy of the plug for one?

Just for starters, the original author used colons in place of periods and commas both. He was elipsis happy too. The grammar is atrocious, the flow in many scenes just horrible, and the poor translations make for very stilted and irregular reading.

Look, I'm something of a writer in my own right. Check the most recent universe bars for my work or, go here and read the beginnings of my Starfleet Corps of Engineers story plus the commentary from my fellow authors on the Dynaverse.net Fan Fiction webboard.
Please note that you won't be seeing typical fanfic crap there. There's only a core group of us there really, and we don't appreciate things such poorly thought out crossovers and the like. The stories that get written there and the discussion that takes place is between authors who are continually trying to improve.

This post has been edited by CaptJosh : 12 February 2007 - 07:58 PM

@captjosh, on Feb 12 2007, 06:57 PM, said in Clavius rEVisited:

Also, a lot of the language just doesn't sound right for the people speaking it. Military officers, non-coms, and enilsteds have a clipped, formal manner of speech that seems the same the world over, regardless of language.

In my opinion, the reason for this isn't so much Clavius' fault as something inherent with the original game, EV. The original game largely featured the same thing you mentioned here, in all missions and strings -- freighter captain, Confed Cruiser commander, Admiral Such-and-Such, and the only exception that was at all carried out was with the pirates (who used stereotypical pirate talk). As a result, Clavius does largely the same thing.

I'll also note that, for the most part, Clavius made perfect sense to me, bad grammar or no.

- Bob