I'd help to come up with a name if I knew what the entire storyline was about. Plus Aftermath was already taken, so I couldn't suggest that.

@joshtigerheart, on Jan 3 2008, 09:14 AM, said in Escape Velocity: Eon:

I'd help to come up with a name if I knew what the entire storyline was about.

Take a look at the "Backgrounds" section of his site. It explains it pretty thoroughly.

@joshtigerheart, on Jan 3 2008, 09:14 AM, said in Escape Velocity: Eon:

Plus Aftermath was already taken, so I couldn't suggest that.

Well, the project's been flushed down the toilet. I don't know if they'd mind or not, but you could ask.

@joshtigerheart, on Jan 3 2008, 09:14 AM, said in Escape Velocity: Eon:

I'd help to come up with a name if I knew what the entire storyline was about.

To tell you the truth, the backstory will be super-long. I'm not even finished yet. And heck, with the Fed Carrier, the picture and description turned into the Mature Wraith. I'm like, what the heck? It didn't come out the way I thought it would have.

The government I made had the Roadside Assistance check box checked. I wonder... it could have something to do with the beginning legal status.

Warlord Mike, I'm not so sure on Aftermath. I've asked on their thread for some ships, and Nick Anderson hasn't replied to my request.

Revolution sounds pretty cool, while 500 sounds interesting. <insert random number here>k5 sounds much like a basketball game. A little too much. I appreciate the ideas, though.

@king_of_manticores, on Jan 3 2008, 08:20 PM, said in Escape Velocity: Eon:

To tell you the truth, the backstory will be super-long. I'm not even finished yet. And heck, with the Fed Carrier, the picture and description turned into the Mature Wraith. I'm like, what the heck? It didn't come out the way I thought it would have.

The government I made had the Roadside Assistance check box checked. I wonder... it could have something to do with the beginning legal status.

Warlord Mike, I'm not so sure on Aftermath. I've asked on their thread for some ships, and Nick Anderson hasn't replied to my request.

Revolution sounds pretty cool, while 500 sounds interesting. <insert random number here>k5 sounds much like a basketball game. A little too much. I appreciate the ideas, though.

Do you mind if I make some comments on your backstory?

Okay and until you answer that, here are some questions.

Am I allowed to assume the back story covers a good portion of the past 500 years?

And is the backstory at a stage where I can say "aha, the game will start with x race down and out, y race ruling, z race just sort of hanging around."
because as of right now...I'm a little confused how that back story relates...unless it is running right up until current events.

I'll save my comments on the writing for either a pm or a post if you allow them to be in the thread.

This post has been edited by Swithich : 04 January 2008 - 12:40 AM

@guest_swithich_-, on Jan 3 2008, 09:33 PM, said in Escape Velocity: Eon:

Am I allowed to assume the back story covers a good portion of the past 500 years?

Yes... but sometimes I don't have a very creative mind. The storyline will be a bit strange until my mind comes up with a great idea that actually makes sense.

@guest_swithich_-, on Jan 3 2008, 09:33 PM, said in Escape Velocity: Eon:

And is the backstory at a stage where I can say "aha, the game will start with x race down and out, y race ruling, z race just sort of hanging around."
because as of right now...I'm a little confused how that back story relates...unless it is running right up until current events.

I would guess that the backstory is that kind of stage.

Well, the <insert race that seems to be hanging out> are probably trying to make their move. What race would that be again? I'm not sure. If you are going to comment on this certain race, I will change it so they aren't lazy.

The backstory runs up to the current events. I'm guessing I'll have to change it soon... heck.

You can comment on the story. I could use some people's comments to see how strange or fascinating it is.

This post has been edited by king_of_manticores : 04 January 2008 - 11:18 AM

@king_of_manticores, on Jan 4 2008, 08:16 AM, said in Escape Velocity: Eon:

Yes... but sometimes I don't have a very creative mind. The storyline will be a bit strange until my mind comes up with a great idea that actually makes sense.

I would guess that the backstory is that kind of stage.

Well, the <insert race that seems to be hanging out> are probably trying to make their move. What race would that be again? I'm not sure. If you are going to comment on this certain race, I will change it so they aren't lazy.

The backstory runs up to the current events. I'm guessing I'll have to change it soon... heck.

You can comment on the story. I could use some people's comments to see how strange or fascinating it is.

Okay, well here is what I think.

Currently your back story is very random. One thing you see a lot of is, for example the word "researcher" used many times. Also, you take sections from every race and sort of just say "this happened". When we are talking about writing in a creative sense, it is best to set it up so that there is some common seam that follows the whole length of the writing. Personally, when I was writing EV: Genesis's time line, I had noticeable elements, i.e. the linage of certain positions. That is an easy and often times helpful link for the reader.

So instead of saying just "researchers" you might name a specific researcher...and his team. Following those same lines you might have a position, like the president of some corporation. This position, may serve as a resource of power for people ruling the universe. So that a reader reading your background can say "awe, and evil man has secured the most powerful position in the story" that can set up the reader for what they are about to read.

Now, this isn't a huge deal in the backstory, although yours needs some work...I don't see the underlying theme. That doesn't mean the theme isn't there, but I should see one forming, some enormous plot that is going to come to a head in your actual TC. Further, I should be able to follow certain themes. Like, after reading I could probably have read back through and found out were the Vellas were (dead ) or I could have looked at the plight of the Polaris, but those need to come together. There should be just some race hanging our over here.

So basically, you need to take all those threads that are common to the story and mix them into one, overall plot, much like EV: Nova, EV: Override, and Escape Velocity did. You want all those plot lines, of not coming to the the same conclusion source, at least dealing with some overwhelming problem.

So that is my two cents. If anyone wants to come and comment on how I am wrong and I've never written anything worth reading etc... That is fine, but I'd just like to help you get started on the right foot. Remember a story isn't real life, real life is often times boring (although sometimes it can be very, very interesting if presented in a creative way). A story, often has implausible parts, and that is sort of its strength. You can take a story and make it cover the whole universe and make certain people reappear or have superpowers or whatever. Try to make your back story rich with detail, while not overwhelming us with stuff we don't need for the beginning of the story.

Hope that helps a little.

@guest_swithich_-, on Jan 4 2008, 09:57 PM, said in Escape Velocity: Eon:

Okay, well here is what I think.

Currently your back story is very random. One thing you see a lot of is, for example the word "researcher" used many times. Also, you take sections from every race and sort of just say "this happened". When we are talking about writing in a creative sense, it is best to set it up so that there is some common seam that follows the whole length of the writing. Personally, when I was writing EV: Genesis's time line, I had noticeable elements, i.e. the linage of certain positions. That is an easy and often times helpful link for the reader.

So instead of saying just "researchers" you might name a specific researcher...and his team. Following those same lines you might have a position, like the president of some corporation. This position, may serve as a resource of power for people ruling the universe. So that a reader reading your background can say "awe, an evil man has secured the most powerful position in the story" that can set up the reader for what they are about to read.

So these are your backstory comments... they seem as if you are criticizing me, but I understand.

I can't really come up with good names. There are only certain occasions when I could come up with good names. About the common seam part, it seems hard to understand. Could you clear that part up?

As said earlier, I can't really think of good names. If someone would contribute some or if I get into one of those times when awesome names pop up, I'd probably change the researchers, or add names to some important people. I only remember naming Vehemel, the T0 Vell-os. Your comment is correct, and I am grateful you brought that up.

@guest_swithich_-, on Jan 4 2008, 09:57 PM, said in Escape Velocity: Eon:

Now, this isn't a huge deal in the backstory, although yours needs some work...I don't see the underlying theme. That doesn't mean the theme isn't there, but I should see one forming, some enormous plot that is going to come to a head in your actual TC. Further, I should be able to follow certain themes. Like, after reading I could probably have read back through and found out were the Vellas were (dead ) or I could have looked at the plight of the Polaris, but those need to come together. There should be just some race hanging our over here.

So basically, you need to take all those threads that are common to the story and mix them into one, overall plot, much like EV: Nova, EV: Override, and Escape Velocity did. You want all those plot lines, of not coming to the the same conclusion source, at least dealing with some overwhelming problem.

This part somewhat confuses me as well. Are you trying to say I should make the different factions have some certain connection, even if it is a very little one, that causes a plot of some sort?

@king_of_manticores, on Jan 5 2008, 02:26 PM, said in Escape Velocity: Eon:

So these are your backstory comments... they seem as if you are criticizing me, but I understand.

I can't really come up with good names. There are only certain occasions when I could come up with good names. About the common seam part, it seems hard to understand. Could you clear that part up?

As said earlier, I can't really think of good names. If someone would contribute some or if I get into one of those times when awesome names pop up, I'd probably change the researchers, or add names to some important people. I only remember naming Vehemel, the T0 Vell-os. Your comment is correct, and I am grateful you brought that up.

This part somewhat confuses me as well. Are you trying to say I should make the different factions have some certain connection, even if it is a very little one, that causes a plot of some sort?

Okay, I don't really distinguish between back story writing and the main storyline. I think the back story is going to be different than the storyline, but the two should flow well. Meaning I should be able to read the back story, and pick up the storyline as soon as I get in the game (or as soon as I actually start the first storyline).

Okay so the common seam is a theme you follow throughout the back story or storyline. You can follow the development of a character like Nova does. Where you go from some basic human to a being fused with the universe. In terms of your back story, I think you should follow that. Right now, to me, your back story is just a list of events with no real connection. If you remember EV:N's back story it listed events, but these event prepared you for the game as well. Basically, when you got done with the back story, it gave you a vague idea of what has been going on in the universe and how each race has been effected. So the theme for EV:N was you come into a universe that is basically out of order...it has been in chaos with factions splitting off. Your goal in essence is to refuse these factions into an orderly, efficient mass. Or that is how I read it.

I can say more later, I have to go somewhere, but make sure when you write you have a goal in mind. Even in your back story, you should have somewhere where you are transporting the reader. And for coming up with creative names, I use patterns. So I'll use roots to foreign languages (usually classic roots like Greek and Latin), and I'll use a root that stands for a primary characteristic of the character. So if you name a character Aquarius...he might be from a water planet. Most names have an underlying meaning so try to give those people who are going to read into your story a little hint of what is to come. You don't have to be supper creative...most names and words have already been established somewhere...so just look around and look for cool names, cut, splice, and add to the words and names you find to make them unique and interesting.

Oh, and if it sounds like I'm being critical, it is because I want your plug to be awesome. It probably isn't going to get any better if I just constantly praise the plug. If I can input something or help you fix something before hand though, the plug can be that much better when it is all said an done.

@guest_swithich_-, on Jan 5 2008, 04:54 PM, said in Escape Velocity: Eon:

Okay, I don't really distinguish between back story writing and the main storyline. I think the back story is going to be different than the storyline, but the two should flow well. Meaning I should be able to read the back story, and pick up the storyline as soon as I get in the game (or as soon as I actually start the first storyline).

Okay so the common seam is a theme you follow throughout the back story or storyline. You can follow the development of a character like Nova does. Where you go from some basic human to a being fused with the universe. In terms of your back story, I think you should follow that. Right now, to me, your back story is just a list of events with no real connection. If you remember EV:N's back story it listed events, but these event prepared you for the game as well. Basically, when you got done with the back story, it gave you a vague idea of what has been going on in the universe and how each race has been effected. So the theme for EV:N was you come into a universe that is basically out of order...it has been in chaos with factions splitting off. Your goal in essence is to refuse these factions into an orderly, efficient mass. Or that is how I read it.

The backstory is going to be different from the storyline, it just basically gives a small backdrop of what had happened over the course of the 500 years before the player plays. I am sure it would probably be like "And NOVA continued their war with the Spartans", and when you go a little deeper into the storyline, it would probably say "Ok, Captain <PN>, we need you to assist us in our war against those savage Spartans". So basically, I would give a course of events that occurred over those 500 years of time and leave readers hanging a little, so that they must get the TC to see what happens next. When they get the TC, they would not be left hanging. Instead, they could choose a storyline, and then not be left with a cliff-hanger. In short, a person reading the Purifier storyline might say, "Gosh, what might happen next? Will they be eradicated or something?" Then when they do get the TC and finish the Purifier's story, they will probably state then, "Oh man. That was very interesting."

If you are saying that I should probably give some idea of what's going on, I already have. But if you are saying I should write all these events and place the person right smack into the middle and say, "Here's the universe. How will you affect it?" Then I have not done that. That sounds interesting. If that's not the way, then tell me.

@guest_swithich_-, on Jan 5 2008, 04:54 PM, said in Escape Velocity: Eon:

I can say more later, I have to go somewhere, but make sure when you write you have a goal in mind. Even in your back story, you should have somewhere where you are transporting the reader. And for coming up with creative names, I use patterns. So I'll use roots to foreign languages (usually classic roots like Greek and Latin), and I'll use a root that stands for a primary characteristic of the character. So if you name a character Aquarius...he might be from a water planet. Most names have an underlying meaning so try to give those people who are going to read into your story a little hint of what is to come. You don't have to be supper creative...most names and words have already been established somewhere...so just look around and look for cool names, cut, splice, and add to the words and names you find to make them unique and interesting.

Well, the idea for naming people like Aquarius sounds like you're foreshadowing something... But I think it's better to name someone different from something that foreshadows what will happen next. Take for example, a traitor. I think if you write the person's name as 'General Bedrayer', a person can play with it a little and think, "Well well well, 'Bedrayer' sounds like 'Betrayer'. So this guy might betray <insert faction here>." Now if I named him 'General Jones', no one would figure out that he would betray <insert faction here>. It would only be after that General Jones betrays <insert faction here> when the person says, "Oh my goodness! This guy just betrayed <insert faction here>! Why, I oughta..." So that's how I think of it.

On the other hand, I could use that idea and change the name a little, add a few characters, and rename 'General Bedrayer' 'General Raybeder'.

@guest_swithich_-, on Jan 5 2008, 04:54 PM, said in Escape Velocity: Eon:

Oh, and if it sounds like I'm being critical, it is because I want your plug to be awesome. It probably isn't going to get any better if I just constantly praise the plug. If I can input something or help you fix something before hand though, the plug can be that much better when it is all said an done.

Thanks. However, what I planned for this plug, such as a special form of ionization, would probably not work out. I think MissionComputer doesn't have an 'add your form of awesome ionization effects' area. And yes, I would probably not have been able to improve this if you didn't point this weird storyline problem out.

This post has been edited by king_of_manticores : 06 January 2008 - 12:19 AM

@king_of_manticores, on Jan 5 2008, 08:39 PM, said in Escape Velocity: Eon:

The backstory is going to be different from the storyline, it just basically gives a small backdrop of what had happened over the course of the 500 years before the player plays. I am sure it would probably be like "And NOVA continued their war with the Spartans", and when you go a little deeper into the storyline, it would probably say "Ok, Captain <PN>, we need you to assist us in our war against those savage Spartans". So basically, I would give a course of events that occurred over those 500 years of time and leave readers hanging a little, so that they must get the TC to see what happens next. When they get the TC, they would not be left hanging. Instead, they could choose a storyline, and then not be left with a cliff-hanger. In short, a person reading the Purifier storyline might say, "Gosh, what might happen next? Will they be eradicated or something?" Then when they do get the TC and finish the Purifier's story, they will probably state then, "Oh man. That was very interesting."

If you are saying that I should probably give some idea of what's going on, I already have. But if you are saying I should write all these events and place the person right smack into the middle and say, "Here's the universe. How will you affect it?" Then I have not done that. That sounds interesting. If that's not the way, then tell me.

First of all, your back story is excessively confusing. It has no dates, no names, and no common theme. It is simply a listing of events. Anyone, can do that. What I want to know is what am I looking at? Is there a conflict here that I can delve and dive into? Is there some common theme that has pervaded the universe for the past 500 years, perhaps, some residual effect of the killing of Commander Krane in EV:Nova? Right now I'm left with a back story that simply says, "First, this happened, then this happened, while over here this was happening. After a partial resolution of that this happened. Finally, this happened." That isn't very entertaining and it doesn't gain the attentions of the reader.

What a lot of teams and plugs try is a combination of a time line and then short cut scene stories from the time line called preambles. This gives the reader a very broad, yet also narrow way of interpreting stretched out time. I think for your 500 year period this would be the way to go. A classical back story really gets worn out over a long period of time. I would say a 25 year period would be max for that, but that is my own limit. I due think you need a deeper more advanced back story, however, if you are going to make a TC on it. The reader should be intrigued by the intertwining of races and how their fates all seem nestled in each others decisions.

@king_of_manticores, on Jan 5 2008, 08:39 PM, said in Escape Velocity: Eon:

Well, the idea for naming people like Aquarius sounds like you're foreshadowing something... But I think it's better to name someone different from something that foreshadows what will happen next. Take for example, a traitor. I think if you write the person's name as 'General Bedrayer', a person can play with it a little and think, "Well well well, 'Bedrayer' sounds like 'Betrayer'. So this guy might betray <insert faction here>." Now if I named him 'General Jones', no one would figure out that he would betray <insert faction here>. It would only be after that General Jones betrays <insert faction here> when the person says, "Oh my goodness! This guy just betrayed <insert faction here>! Why, I oughta..." So that's how I think of it.

On the other hand, I could use that idea and change the name a little, add a few characters, and rename 'General Bedrayer' 'General Raybeder'.

You missed the whole point of what I said. First, off foreshadowing is a very, very effective technique in presenting a theme and forcing readers to expand their search. What I was suggesting is using foreign languages, and other abstract ways of implying meaning to reward the reader. For example, most people would see no particular significance in the name Admiral Puerib or Admiral Pueribus. However, knowing latin roots or the fact that the word puerile means "child like or immature" good give a keen reader insight to this character. It isn't foreshadowing and it isn't necessarily giving away plot. To come up with good names you can literally pull out a few dictionaries, look up words and use them with slight alterations. That is creative and also, much like an easter egg for keen readers, as many Nova players are.

Great authors do this all that time, and it doesn't harm the story at all when used correctly. Plus keen readers can use these names as sort of bookmarks for a character. It is very easy to recall what Admiral Puerib's attributes are if you remember what his name means.

@guest_swithich_-, on Jan 6 2008, 03:30 AM, said in Escape Velocity: Eon:

First of all, your back story is excessively confusing. It has no dates, no names, and no common theme. It is simply a listing of events. Anyone, can do that. What I want to know is what am I looking at? Is there a conflict here that I can delve and dive into? Is there some common theme that has pervaded the universe for the past 500 years, perhaps, some residual effect of the killing of Commander Krane in EV:Nova? Right now I'm left with a back story that simply says, "First, this happened, then this happened, while over here this was happening. After a partial resolution of that this happened. Finally, this happened." That isn't very entertaining and it doesn't gain the attentions of the reader.

What a lot of teams and plugs try is a combination of a time line and then short cut scene stories from the time line called preambles. This gives the reader a very broad, yet also narrow way of interpreting stretched out time. I think for your 500 year period this would be the way to go. A classical back story really gets worn out over a long period of time. I would say a 25 year period would be max for that, but that is my own limit. I due think you need a deeper more advanced back story, however, if you are going to make a TC on it. The reader should be intrigued by the intertwining of races and how their fates all seem nestled in each others decisions.

Well, I WAS going to (even though it's in EV Nova, I'll hide it in spoiler tags anyway)

Spoiler

have Vehemel kill off Krane

. My other plan was to read the Nova Preambles... but I didn't get the time to. I wasn't finished with the story yet.

As for the conflict..... (thinks to self for at least... 10 minutes...) it sounds like you know much more about storytelling than me. I was also planning to learn plug-in making so that I could make the Preambles of EV <whatever I feel like naming it>.

So if I say, "<faction 1> did this, causing the <faction 2> to do this, which heavily damaged <faction 3>," would that be an example of how "(every faction's) fates all seem nestled in each other's decisions"?

@guest_swithich_-, on Jan 6 2008, 03:30 AM, said in Escape Velocity: Eon:

You missed the whole point of what I said. First, off foreshadowing is a very, very effective technique in presenting a theme and forcing readers to expand their search. What I was suggesting is using foreign languages, and other abstract ways of implying meaning to reward the reader. For example, most people would see no particular significance in the name Admiral Puerib or Admiral Pueribus. However, knowing latin roots or the fact that the word puerile means "child like or immature" good give a keen reader insight to this character. It isn't foreshadowing and it isn't necessarily giving away plot. To come up with good names you can literally pull out a few dictionaries, look up words and use them with slight alterations. That is creative and also, much like an easter egg for keen readers, as many Nova players are.

Great authors do this all that time, and it doesn't harm the story at all when used correctly. Plus keen readers can use these names as sort of bookmarks for a character. It is very easy to recall what Admiral Puerib's attributes are if you remember what his name means.

Wouldn't it be easier to read a book, find a word that's strange, look it up, and then try making names for it?

I don't think that EV Nova doesn't do this at all. So if I (very random thought that came out of my mind just right now) call some guy Admiral Aktmatur and he acts mature, and some keen reader thinks, "This guy acts mature, and if I play with the syllables of Aktmatur, it sounds like 'act mature'," would that be using the way of foreshadowing the character?

The way I understand your way of talking about foreshadowing is that giving the character a name, whether foreign or words that were just combined together, should mean something. As with your Puerib/Pueribus idea, if Admiral Puerib/Pueribus was in the game and, should you be correct, (which you probably are) Puerib/Pueribus was close to the Latin word "puerile", meaning childish, then Admiral Puerib/Pueribus should act childish at times. If the player decodes his name, they would say "Puerib is near puerile." So Puerib MEANS something.

Heck, your ideas in helping me improve the storyline are great, make no mistake about that, but are very often confusing and I am now lost.

Personally, I don't like using character's names to signify their personality, traits, or some other physical, mental, social, emotional, spiritual, what-have-you aspects. I mean, my parents didn't name me Gudnoovahplahyer or Stahsculm (Good Nova Player and Stays Calm, respectively). When I come across characters names that are quite obvious signifiers of some aspect of them or foreshadowing, it kicks me out of the immersion of the story.

There are plenty of other ways to foreshadow. For example, a character could say, "If you keep that up, you're gonna kill yourself someday, boy!" which could foreshadow "boy's" death later on. It works especially well when injected into casual conversation between characters, because readers will remember that and expect it, yet there's still a good chance "boy's" death would still be unexpected.

By the way, foreshadowing is simply something that makes reference to something later in a story, usually an event. Naming characters with names that reflect some aspect of them is, well, I forgot the term for that.

@joshtigerheart, on Jan 6 2008, 10:10 PM, said in Escape Velocity: Eon:

Personally, I don't like using character's names to signify their personality, traits, or some other physical, mental, social, emotional, spiritual, what-have-you aspects. I mean, my parents didn't name me Gudnoovahplahyer or Stahsculm (Good Nova Player and Stays Calm, respectively). When I come across characters names that are quite obvious signifiers of some aspect of them or foreshadowing, it kicks me out of the immersion of the story.

There are plenty of other ways to foreshadow. For example, a character could say, "If you keep that up, you're gonna kill yourself someday, boy!" which could foreshadow "boy's" death later on. It works especially well when injected into casual conversation between characters, because readers will remember that and expect it, yet there's still a good chance "boy's" death would still be unexpected.

By the way, foreshadowing is simply something that makes reference to something later in a story, usually an event. Naming characters with names that reflect some aspect of them is, well, I forgot the term for that.

Okay, I've been taking a few English classes lately, and one of my personal goals is to make every piece of fiction I write more meaningful. I'm not saying you have to use all my ideas, in fact I wouldn't expect you to, but in the grand scheme of things it is better to add more depth to a story than just make a listing of events.

And when naming someone...I wouldn't use English if you are planning on giving their name meaning. People will see right though that. However, often times ancient names look cool. For example here is a site that has latin names and their meaning, you might recognize a few...one related to the name of the software company who's forums you are currently posting on, Latin Names and Naming. Of course you don't have to use that Latin name in full...you might cut off the us,a, or um ending. For example you could name some one Caec. Okay interesting name reader goes on. But maybe Caec (which comes form the Latin name Caecus, which means blind) is a detective that misses a vital clue later in the story...cool name plus foreshadowing. Of, course it doesn't have to foreshadow the story, it may just be a characteristic that character has, figurative or literal...maybe he just misses important details. Who knows! But this is a good way of rewarding the reader for being attentive and leaving easter eggs in your plug that allow other plug makers to actually expand off of your TC.

I also personally prefer clandestine foreshadowing over some character just making a statement. I mean, you see it from two miles away, the shady character in the corner making a prophetic statement. What you can have, however, is foreshadowing that doesn't seem like foreshadowing. Maybe involve some sort of bad voodoo or whatever. Say a character says to his friend, "See you tomorrow after the race." Maybe there character actually Jinx's this other character and he dies. Still you can make it more secretive than that, and I think names, places, and events are the way to do that instead of dialog. Plus it gives the reader and player more to look for in your TC. Shoot on Nova we wracked almost 700 posts just speculating on what things could mean. Nova seems cut and dry right? Well if you get down to the nitty gritty, it is really ambiguous (mostly for developers sake), but it still provides a frame work to speculate and search the text for meaning.

Okay, well those are my thoughts.

You're the reason why I deliberately use more normal/real names for characters in my stories, at least the human characters. I tend to rebel against the strange, fantastical names (unless there's a very good reason) and aim for more believability. After all, just on based on names, who do you think would be more believable: Isaac or Galbatorix? Naturally the former. Of course, I don't just use "normal English names". Isaac, for example, is hebrew (and hebrew has some awesome names).

But my decision to do this has been a bit more recent. I have been guilty of picking names that have meanings on a few scant occasions. I once named a demon "Nur al Din", which was an arabic name that meant something to the effect of "strong in the faith", used it as irony. I've also been guilty of using "abnormal" names, some of which still stick with their characters today.

And, of course, I'm not condoning a grand list of events. Unless they're placed onto a time line and have accompaniment in some form, such as preambles or the time line is written like journal entries (ignoring the fact someone couldn't live long enough to write them all).

@joshtigerheart, on Jan 7 2008, 10:48 AM, said in Escape Velocity: Eon:

You're the reason why I deliberately use more normal/real names for characters in my stories, at least the human characters. I tend to rebel against the strange, fantastical names (unless there's a very good reason) and aim for more believability. After all, just on based on names, who do you think would be more believable: Isaac or Galbatorix? Naturally the former. Of course, I don't just use "normal English names". Isaac, for example, is hebrew (and hebrew has some awesome names).

But my decision to do this has been a bit more recent. I have been guilty of picking names that have meanings on a few scant occasions. I once named a demon "Nur al Din", which was an arabic name that meant something to the effect of "strong in the faith", used it as irony. I've also been guilty of using "abnormal" names, some of which still stick with their characters today.

And, of course, I'm not condoning a grand list of events. Unless they're placed onto a time line and have accompaniment in some form, such as preambles or the time line is written like journal entries (ignoring the fact someone couldn't live long enough to write them all).

Okay, not to shoot down your whole argument, but what exactly is believable about anything in Nova? You can literally, fly faster than the speed of light, borrow though space and time, fly in ships that have no wings but land on planets, use hypergates (what the hell are those), oh races that have psychic powers (and can fold space and material around them to form a ship), they have attacks where they focus part of the universe on something, what the hell is realistic about EV: Nova?

I think that different names go along with the theme. Why would names like Isaac or John be popular a thousand years from now? Why would English still be the language of choice, why not have summations of languages, or perhaps in the past everything we know as humans was predetermined and what we have now is actually residue from past alien races including our language... :Kryptic Grin:

Anyway, I'm taking another English class this term and I hope to improve my story writing. Josh you do what you want put personally the further I can get a reader, reading into my back story, time line, story line, or novel the more enjoyable it is going to be for me, them, and the more interesting the TC is going to be when it is released. That is just how I feel.

This post has been edited by Swithich : 07 January 2008 - 06:32 PM

Sorry, I think you're off base.

Things like hyperdrives, futuristic spaceships, psychic powers, are all aspects of the universe mechanics. They aren't 'realistic' because they could exist in real life, but they're consistent within the rules of the universe.

Even within a fantastic universe, though, you can have 'realistic' characters who show emotions and experience adventures that readers can sympathize with. And part of creating a realistic character is giving them a backstory that's consistent. (Remember to make this distinction between 'realistic', which is irrelevant, and 'consistent', which is what you're really looking for.) One of the aspects of this is creating believable backstories and consistent names and histories.

In this vein, the Latin naming doesn't work in every instance. A name like 'Pureib' or 'Caec' is going to stick out like a sore thumb on a backwater planet populated by, for example, descendants of South Americans, or a futuristic technological dystopia where everything is controlled by computers. If you use the Latin names for certain characters and not for others, you have the same problem with the characters overtly drawing unwanted attention because of their strange nomenclature. Allusions are much better when they're subtly worked into the text in a context where their deeper meaning can coexist with their superficial (immediately apparent) meaning. 'Pureib' is a pretty transparent attempt to convey a message. Something like 'Project Prometheus' or the 'USS Phaeton' provides thematic depth that you can reveal when the time is right.

But whatever works for you, go for it.

This post has been edited by UE_Research & Development: 07 January 2008 - 08:06 PM

@guest_swithich_-, on Jan 7 2008, 05:30 PM, said in Escape Velocity: Eon:

Okay, not to shoot down your whole argument, but what exactly is believable about anything in Nova? You can literally, fly faster than the speed of light, borrow though space and time, fly in ships that have no wings but land on planets, use hypergates (what the hell are those), oh races that have psychic powers (and can fold space and material around them to form a ship), they have attacks where they focus part of the universe on something, what the hell is realistic about EV: Nova?

I think that different names go along with the theme. Why would names like Isaac or John be popular a thousand years from now? Why would English still be the language of choice, why not have summations of languages, or perhaps in the past everything we know as humans was predetermined and what we have now is actually residue from past alien races including our language... :Kryptic Grin:

Anyway, I'm taking another English class this term and I hope to improve my story writing. Josh you do what you want put personally the further I can get a reader, reading into my back story, time line, story line, or novel the more enjoyable it is going to be for me, them, and the more interesting the TC is going to be when it is released. That is just how I feel.

I was talking about writing in general, not necessarily Nova (though it can easily be applied to Nova and TCs). Though in any setting, just because it is fantastical or sci-fi, doesn't mean characters shouldn't be as realistic as the mechanics of the universe allows them to be. Luke Skywalker is a pretty believable character. Sure, he has a lightsabre, the force, and flies spaceships, but he also a name that isn't too far-fetched (the first name seriously helps), has behaves believably, as realistic qualities, and so forth. On the contrary, Eragon in... Eragon didn't quite have the same feeling to me. Stereotypical odd name, behavior not all that believable at times, and several other qualities about him felt out of place. But the name hurt his character. I was like "Hmmm, Eragon. Wait... dragon? D to E? LAME!" I made that realization pretty quickly and it hurt the story.

And why wouldn't names like Joshua or Isaac be used thousands of years in the future? They were used thousands of years ago and are used today (just look at my name), so that's hardly a stretch. And as for English? Well, I prefer to write something my readers can read. :laugh:

As someone who takes writing seriously and is working on a novel (see sig (/shamelessadvertisement)), English classes really don't help much when it comes to writing (spelling and grammar aside). Literature classes help some, but that heavily depends on what you read and what genre(s) you prefer. The best bet is to write stuff and get feedback from other writers, preferably several. If your class offers something like a Creative Writing Workshop and you're serious enough about writing, TAKE IT! I took one and was able to pick up some techniques, opinions, and advice from others. And I'm sure the others did the same from me.

KoM probably should do the same to improve his backstory, based on what I'm reading here. Haven't had a chance to look at it. I still owe Pace a review of some of his ARPIA novel chapters.

@ue_research---development, on Jan 7 2008, 05:03 PM, said in Escape Velocity: Eon:

Sorry, I think you're off base.

Things like hyperdrives, futuristic spaceships, psychic powers, are all aspects of the universe mechanics. They aren't 'realistic' because they could exist in real life, but they're consistent within the rules of the universe.

Even within a fantastic universe, though, you can have 'realistic' characters who show emotions and experience adventures that readers can sympathize with. And part of creating a realistic character is giving them a backstory that's consistent. (Remember to make this distinction between 'realistic', which is irrelevant, and 'consistent', which is what you're really looking for.) One of the aspects of this is creating believable backstories and consistent names and histories.

In this vein, the Latin naming doesn't work in every instance. A name like 'Pureib' or 'Caec' is going to stick out like a sore thumb on a backwater planet populated by, for example, descendants of South Americans, or a futuristic technological dystopia where everything is controlled by computers. If you use the Latin names for certain characters and not for others, you have the same problem with the characters overtly drawing unwanted attention because of their strange nomenclature. Allusions are much better when they're subtly worked into the text in a context where their deeper meaning can coexist with their superficial (immediately apparent) meaning. 'Pureib' is a pretty transparent attempt to convey a message. Something like 'Project Prometheus' or the 'USS Phaeton' provides thematic depth that you can reveal when the time is right.

But whatever works for you, go for it.

First of all, I'm glad you've explored the whole universe to tell me how the mechanics work though out it. Admit it, what we know as mechanics is a system of equations that appears to work for things on Earth. No one knows if the speed of light is really constant throughout the universe...but it is for our measurement in and around Earth. We don't know if there is antigravity as Einstein theorized. We don't really know anything, we make educated guesses and hope that they work for what we are testing. In the whim of a few seconds, some factor that has never been observed or considered before could disprove all of astrophysics, and we don't know if it exists because we aren't able to observe it. This topic is very sore for me, how do were really know that we know more that people did a few thousand years ago...maybe we are completely wrong and don't know it yet. Just because some Ph.D. working with a grant from NSF that has to continue his research or starve comes up with some off the wall theory, doesn't mean it is true.

Awe, but people forgive and forget because they really want to think that they know everything, that they have a grip on everything...common, if you are honest with yourself you know the answer; humans can only approximate the environment around them. They extrapolate to gain the rest and call it "truth", "knowledge", or "a theory" no one even really knows if different forces lie throughout the universe because we can't observe them, we just assume we have accounted for everything.

I would like to know how the Polaris don't draw some "strange nomenclature". Seriously, I can't pronounce or spell half those names unless I copy and paste them. What is Krypt? Maybe the arachnid or the scarab aren't suppose to look like bugs. Come on, EV Nova itself uses names to characterize objects and people. The game uses a variety of techniques. You shouldn't just throw out names that make you feel uncomfortable to read. That is what makes the game interesting, if finding many of the easter eggs put there. I don't mean you give every name in the game a latin root...that would be stupid. I would mix it up. Personally, I'd mix in English words cut, sliced, and spliced as much as foreign languages. All of the roots of English come from three or four different languages anyway, and going back to those languages and using a root that is archaic can be fun for readers to toy with.

@joshtigerheart, on Jan 7 2008, 06:46 PM, said in Escape Velocity: Eon:

I was talking about writing in general, not necessarily Nova (though it can easily be applied to Nova and TCs). Though in any setting, just because it is fantastical or sci-fi, doesn't mean characters shouldn't be as realistic as the mechanics of the universe allows them to be. Luke Skywalker is a pretty believable character. Sure, he has a lightsabre, the force, and flies spaceships, but he also a name that isn't too far-fetched (the first name seriously helps), has behaves believably, as realistic qualities, and so forth. On the contrary, Eragon in... Eragon didn't quite have the same feeling to me. Stereotypical odd name, behavior not all that believable at times, and several other qualities about him felt out of place. But the name hurt his character. I was like "Hmmm, Eragon. Wait... dragon? D to E? LAME!" I made that realization pretty quickly and it hurt the story.

And why wouldn't names like Joshua or Isaac be used thousands of years in the future? They were used thousands of years ago and are used today (just look at my name), so that's hardly a stretch. And as for English? Well, I prefer to write something my readers can read. :laugh:

As someone who takes writing seriously and is working on a novel (see sig (/shamelessadvertisement)), English classes really don't help much when it comes to writing (spelling and grammar aside). Literature classes help some, but that heavily depends on what you read and what genre(s) you prefer. The best bet is to write stuff and get feedback from other writers, preferably several. If your class offers something like a Creative Writing Workshop and you're serious enough about writing, TAKE IT! I took one and was able to pick up some techniques, opinions, and advice from others. And I'm sure the others did the same from me.

KoM probably should do the same to improve his backstory, based on what I'm reading here. Haven't had a chance to look at it. I still owe Pace a review of some of his ARPIA novel chapters.

Okay so Luke Skywalker (Ya, what about that last name for foreshadowing...ah...umm...wow). Then there is Han Solo, Chewbacca, or the Ewoks...I wouldn't assume in a universe a thousand years from now that has space flights to the ends of the known galaxy that you are going to have a Ubiquitous language throughout. In fact I would expect you to have names form many, many languages.

As for names like Joshua and Isaac they are attached with a popular institutions, namely religion. Unless all the planets in your TC are Judeo-Christian, I would be very, very surprised if those were still the most popular names. Just go find a few sites for naming people. You will see that most "popular names" last for maybe a hundred or two hundred years. Most recently that has been cut drastically. For example now, black colloquial names are very popular (at least where I come from).

Oh, and buy English, I meant literature (every English class I've taken since the 9th grade has been a literature class). Recently we have been reading a lot of Hawthorne, Melville, Irving, Poe, etcs...(that was last term), this term is authors from the 1860s to about 1914. Most authors in that genre give their characters significant names...and I'd say that applies to most genres of literature. You want your primary characters to memorable and their names to be meaningful.

Quote

Okay so Luke Skywalker (Ya, what about that last name for foreshadowing...ah...umm...wow). Then there is Han Solo, Chewbacca, or the Ewoks...I wouldn't assume in a universe a thousand years from now that has space flights to the ends of the known galaxy that you are going to have a Ubiquitous language throughout. In fact I would expect you to have names form many, many languages.

As for names like Joshua and Isaac they are attached with a popular institutions, namely religion. Unless all the planets in your TC are Judeo-Christian, I would be very, very surprised if those were still the most popular names. Just go find a few sites for naming people. You will see that most "popular names" last for maybe a hundred or two hundred years. Most recently that has been cut drastically. For example now, black colloquial names are very popular (at least where I come from).

Well, of course I'm going to have names from different languages. My non-humans won't use typical human names. Maybe an occasional overlap, or one that sounds similar but is spelled differently (or vice versa), but they tend to have distinct names. And when you get to humans, I mix it up every now and then, depending on the culture. Maybe give a guy a spanish first name and a chinese last name due to some cultural mixing at some point, or make one of the names "not so human" due to cultural mixing with other species. And, of course, who's to say that older names will be erased? Though that varies based on the writer's universe, of course.

Though in my novel's universe, I get around the language issue with overly widespread use of translator devices (usually surgically installed into the cranium). Though not everyone has them...

Though it's slightly worth noting that in Override everyone speaks English. One of the pers ships even comments on it.

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Oh, and buy English, I meant literature (every English class I've taken since the 9th grade has been a literature class). Recently we have been reading a lot of Hawthorne, Melville, Irving, Poe, etcs...(that was last term), this term is authors from the 1860s to about 1914. Most authors in that genre give their characters significant names...and I'd say that applies to most genres of literature. You want your primary characters to memorable and their names to be meaningful.

Symbolism is an option and doesn't really apply to all genres. After all, I fail to see the symbolism in the name Frodo Baggins. It isn't necessary either to make a story have a deeper meaning either (depending on how vague and generalized you make your definition of symbolism to be). Certain aspects of a story, character behavior, actions of certain governments, and other things can be an author's commentary on various subjects. Though none of it is really necessary to make a good story, if Stephen King's success is any indication, according to what I've heard about his works. I've personally found myself lately doing a few things in writing that are more or less subtle comments on literary cliches and stereotypes.

And you don't always want a meaningful name. Arthur Dent's name from Hitchhiker's was particularly memorable to me because it was extremely normal and bland with no hidden meanings, totally unlike what you find for a main protagonist. And, in some cases, you might want a character's name to not be memorable, such as having a running gag of the other characters forgetting his name and wanting to make the reader forget too as part of the fun. Or still, in some cases, like in The Red Badge of Courage, you don't want to name your character at all.

Quote

First of all, I'm glad you've explored the whole universe to tell me how the mechanics work though out it. Admit it, what we know as mechanics is a system of equations that appears to work for things on Earth. No one knows if the speed of light is really constant throughout the universe...but it is for our measurement in and around Earth. We don't know if there is antigravity as Einstein theorized. We don't really know anything, we make educated guesses and hope that they work for what we are testing. In the whim of a few seconds, some factor that has never been observed or considered before could disprove all of astrophysics, and we don't know if it exists because we aren't able to observe it. This topic is very sore for me, how do were really know that we know more that people did a few thousand years ago...maybe we are completely wrong and don't know it yet. Just because some Ph.D. working with a grant from NSF that has to continue his research or starve comes up with some off the wall theory, doesn't mean it is true.

Awe, but people forgive and forget because they really want to think that they know everything, that they have a grip on everything...common, if you are honest with yourself you know the answer; humans can only approximate the environment around them. They extrapolate to gain the rest and call it "truth", "knowledge", or "a theory" no one even really knows if different forces lie throughout the universe because we can't observe them, we just assume we have accounted for everything.

Did you even read what I wrote? I'm talking about literary consistency, not the real world. I don't care if the laws in the real world are consistent throughout the whole universe for the purposes of this discussion. I care about whether you say, in your invented, fictional, literary world, whether rule A applies, and then go on to break rule A throughout your writing. Rule A doesn't have to be related to anything that exists in the universe as we know it, it just has to help the writer advance the plot or characterization.

When you can make that elementary distinction, come back and see me.

Quote

I would like to know how the Polaris don't draw some "strange nomenclature". Seriously, I can't pronounce or spell half those names unless I copy and paste them. What is Krypt? Maybe the arachnid or the scarab aren't suppose to look like bugs. Come on, EV Nova itself uses names to characterize objects and people. The game uses a variety of techniques. You shouldn't just throw out names that make you feel uncomfortable to read. That is what makes the game interesting, if finding many of the easter eggs put there. I don't mean you give every name in the game a latin root...that would be stupid. I would mix it up. Personally, I'd mix in English words cut, sliced, and spliced as much as foreign languages. All of the roots of English come from three or four different languages anyway, and going back to those languages and using a root that is archaic can be fun for readers to toy with.

The Polaris nomenclature is consistent. Again, read what I wrote above. They don't mix names like 'New London' or 'Grand Rapids' with the fictional naming scheme that they use. Again, many of their names don't have meaning in the real world. That's fine. If you want to foreshadow everything, that's fine too! Whatever makes you happy as the author. Of course, foreshadowing is supposed to be an adjunct to the plot, not a distraction from it.

Characterization is completely different. You can name a ship the 'Sprite', to evoke a small, fast, nimble vessel, or a 'Leviathan' to evoke a lumbering freighter. But those names are intentional- they were probably invented in the fictional universe by the shipwright or company to describe the vessel's distinguishing characteristics or function. As Josh said above, people don't work the same way. If a person's name somehow describes his personality or his role as a character, you should be aware (unless the author explicitly wanted it to be otherwise) that most likely, the resemblance was unintentional from an in-universe point of view. In that case, you want to make it subtle, to make it consistent. (See above if you need more help with what 'consistent' means, as opposed to 'realistic'.)

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Okay so Luke Skywalker (Ya, what about that last name for foreshadowing...ah...umm...wow). Then there is Han Solo, Chewbacca, or the Ewoks...I wouldn't assume in a universe a thousand years from now that has space flights to the ends of the known galaxy that you are going to have a Ubiquitous language throughout. In fact I would expect you to have names form many, many languages.

This is actually a very good example of where using 'appropriate' names makes sense, because Star Wars is an epic (see Monomyth, at the link). Epics and works with a heavy religious or mythical bent or theme are very good places to use those names. If you're writing a space opera or a science-fantasy TC, you should definitely have at least some symbolism within the in-game universe.

Quote

Oh, and buy English, I meant literature (every English class I've taken since the 9th grade has been a literature class). Recently we have been reading a lot of Hawthorne, Melville, Irving, Poe, etcs...(that was last term), this term is authors from the 1860s to about 1914. Most authors in that genre give their characters significant names...and I'd say that applies to most genres of literature. You want your primary characters to memorable and their names to be meaningful.

While I do agree that the writers of that time period tended to use 'meaningful' names, each project (novel, short story, TC, or whatever) should evaluate whether they're appropriate on a case-by-case basis, and figure out how to use them effectively (whether with the Latin roots you suggested, which would fit in better in some cases than in others), or with mythological references, or something else.

This post has been edited by UE_Research & Development: 08 January 2008 - 09:32 AM