Yup. Now we'll get to use tycho's 3d program. It'll be done by that time...We'll be using it Depending on how much it will cost. Probly less than 3dsMax, and definately less than Maya. ! And for the people who use Maya or 3dsMax...You'd be glad you alreads had them! Assuming that the 3d format will be supported for those programs or a plugin for them will be released that supports the 3d file type. Good luck developers on making that, if ev3d comes out. Also hope the file type will be a type that's originally supported by 3dsMax. it would help a lot. Well...If the new game came with a special converter that supported maya and 3dsMax file types, that would help. Okay, i'm just babling on. I'm sure it will give an idea or two IF ev3d ever comes out. And if some random programmer decides to make it true, then...well...i'd love to help. Wait, can it be a random programmer? I'm not sure. The game was created my Matt, so I guess they would need his permission to make an ev3d. babbles on and on

pipeline, on Jul 1 2005, 12:29 AM, said:

Don't underestimate the "cool" factor.

Here are some things that could be accomplished in a 3D view EV game (assuming single plane of movement, just like EV, only OpenGL graphics:(list)

-snip-

Dave @ ATMOS
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If EV were ever to go 3D this would be the best way to do it. Not only would it be keeping the gameplay the same (Which is afterall, why most of us play any of the EV's in the first place, for the gameplay) But also It woulden't put into direct competition with any of the other fully 3D space sims such as Freelancer, Vendetta, and all the others. Having all those nifty graphics features would be good, though it would be interesting too see how well Open GL graphics would look on a small scale.

Quote

(Which is afterall, why most of us play any of the EV's in the first place, for the gameplay) But also It woulden't put into direct competition with any of the other fully 3D space sims such as Freelancer, Vendetta, and all the others.

Good point, but if it was a fully 3D space sim, it would certainly out-compete those listed. Freelancer has great graphics, etc, but the storyline is lousy. I personally play EV as much for story as anything else. Still, gameplay in the EV games is far superior to any major 3D space sim, because while those games focus on "eye candy" one is able to do much more in the EV universes-- you aren't even able name your ship in Freelancer.

Anyway, what you wrote brought this to mind.

That's why an EV game should stay an EV game. When you get into flight-sim nonsense, you start to loose what makes EV cool -- great storyline and great (straight-forward) gameplay mechanics.

Dave @ ATMOS

That I must agree with 100%- it's just why plain old, vanilla AD&D is always going to be more fun than newer RPGs... The gameplay, while certainly not realistic, flashy or even internally consistant, is so simple and fun that even a 7-year old can play it (my daughter!). That cannot be said for more complex systems, such as Palladium/Rifts or White Wolf/Vampire.

pipeline, on Jul 2 2005, 07:34 PM, said:

That's why an EV game should stay an EV game. When you get into flight-sim nonsense, you start to loose what makes EV cool -- great storyline and great (straight-forward) gameplay mechanics.

Dave @ ATMOS
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pipeline, on Jul 3 2005, 01:34 AM, said:

That's why an EV game should stay an EV game. When you get into flight-sim nonsense, you start to loose what makes EV cool -- great storyline and great (straight-forward) gameplay mechanics.

Dave @ ATMOS
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Indeed.

There are at least a couple asteroids clones out there that turned asteroids into a 1st persion POV 3D game, but EV might not translate so well into that sort of environment.

As for the contention that the camera angle in the SFC games wouldn't work, try hitting F1. You'll get an overhead view.

I saw a screenshot from a locked topic for an EV3D, and it was multiplayer. The moderaters were playing it. It had pretty good graphics, too. Now what was that about, pipeline? Got any more screenshots you would like to show us?

This post has been edited by Nerd : 02 November 2005 - 12:31 AM

If you look closely at that, you'll notice that it's Photoshopped. The images of ships are from the large shipyard pics.

Nerd, on Nov 2 2005, 05:30 AM, said:

I saw a screenshot from a locked topic for an EV3D, and it was multiplayer. The moderaters were playing it. It had pretty good graphics, too. Now what was that about, pipeline? Got any more screenshots you would like to show us?
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:laugh:

Nerd, on Nov 2 2005, 06:30 PM, said:

I saw a screenshot from a locked topic for an EV3D, and it was multiplayer. The moderaters were playing it. It had pretty good graphics, too. Now what was that about, pipeline? Got any more screenshots you would like to show us?
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Heh heh, I think you'll find that it wasn't pipeline who showed off that screenshot.

But this topic is many months old - I'm pretty sure you could have found somewhere more recent to ask this (ie, the Lazy topic on the Nova board where you can also find that screenshot).

Nerd, on Nov 2 2005, 06:30 AM, said:

I saw a screenshot from a locked topic for an EV3D, and it was multiplayer. The moderaters were playing it. It had pretty good graphics, too. Now what was that about, pipeline? Got any more screenshots you would like to show us?
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Yeah, that's the EVN Mod edition. Only for (super)mods and admins.

One thing that in my opinion makes 3D EV on a 2D plane difficult is collisions.
It will look incredibly stupid if the ships fly straight into eachother. Especially if there are pieces of one ships sticking out throught the other ship.
I do not see an easy solution to that problem. Except making ships collide.
Maybe putting all ships in different height values, but that does not seem like a good option.

Other than that, 3D EV on a 2D plane would be ok.

Implementing collisions would require a much smarter AI... Probably detract from the gameplay too.

rmx256, on Nov 3 2005, 12:25 PM, said:

Implementing collisions would require a much smarter AI... Probably detract from the gameplay too.
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Indeed...

Or you could have several logical layers. Move up a logical layer and your ship grows so it doesn't look like it went anywhere. Down and vice-versa. But with that setup, collisions will be a bit interesting...

Qaanol, on Jun 30 2005, 09:52 PM, said:

Blasphemer!

I never really got into Ares. I don't know why, we just didn't hit it off.
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Ares had a better game engine than EV IMHO. But it's story was uninspiring, the AI lame, and the missions dull. For shame.

pipeline, on Jun 30 2005, 11:29 PM, said:

Don't underestimate the "cool" factor.

Here are some things that could be accomplished in a 3D view EV game (assuming single plane of movement, just like EV, only OpenGL graphics. I could go on at some length. All of this is eye candy, but never underestimate how much people will pay for eye candy.

Dave @ ATMOS
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Indeed. Cough Nova! Cough

rmx256, on Jul 1 2005, 10:15 AM, said:

That's because Matt (bless him for what he has done though!) did not take the oppertunity for an EV3 as an excuse to write a new engine from scratch. We're saddled with too much leftover from Override- in both features and limitations.

If someone had the balls, surely it could be rewritten. But not as an expansion or addition to the current code.
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Yeah it would have to be redone from scratch. Matt wrote EV when 3D was very new. The technology just wasn't there, least of all on the Mac.

Anaxagoras, on Jul 2 2005, 12:57 AM, said:

Yes, we are.

Of course, if it weren't for sprites, you and I coudn't use Mechanisto for Nova graphics unless someone had created an exporter.
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Yes, a Mechanisto exporter. That's a good idea, wouldn't you say, rmx

Slayer LP-5, on Jul 2 2005, 04:18 AM, said:

Yup. Now we'll get to use tycho's 3d program. It'll be done by that time...We'll be using it Depending on how much it will cost. Probly less than 3dsMax, and definately less than Maya. !
View Post

When has got to be done by?!

And it will cost a lot less than either of those programs!

Crusader Alpha, on Jul 2 2005, 08:38 PM, said:

Good point, but if it was a fully 3D space sim, it would certainly out-compete those listed. Freelancer has great graphics, etc, but the storyline is lousy. I personally play EV as much for story as anything else. Still, gameplay in the EV games is far superior to any major 3D space sim, because while those games focus on "eye candy" one is able to do much more in the EV universes-- you aren't even able name your ship in Freelancer.

Anyway, what you wrote brought this to mind.
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X-Wing vs Tie Fighter was pretty good, as was Tachyon. The more recent 'spacers' have been lamentable afairs, trading gameplay for graphics.

pipeline, on Jul 3 2005, 01:34 AM, said:

That's why an EV game should stay an EV game. When you get into flight-sim nonsense, you start to loose what makes EV cool -- great storyline and great (straight-forward) gameplay mechanics.

Dave @ ATMOS
View Post

Yes! Playing chess with 3D, OpenGL-rendered graphics doesn't make it more enjoyable. You might sell more copies, but once the novelty wares-off, it's just chess.

Dammit, Tycho, the Mechanisto file format was easy for me- a rank amatuer! Surely you could do it!

Hint- think seed values.
Hint 2- Look very closely at where the # #'s are- and where they are to each other.

rmx256, on Nov 3 2005, 06:25 AM, said:

Implementing collisions would require a much smarter AI... Probably detract from the gameplay too.
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Think of the asteroids... :blink:

Did anybody ever play the 3D game mburch made a long time ago involving very simple 3D ships where you take off from a rotating space station and try to shoot the other ship... I can't remember the name, but it was very simple... Anyway, it kinda sucked.

Also, the one I thought at least somebody would mention VegaStrike. It's open source, 3D, and has many EV-ish features. The problem with it is that it sucks and the gameplay is awful. The other problem is that it is almost impossible to hit anything anywhere for any reason. You really would lose a lot in the process of 3D-ing a 2D space game.

As far as OpenGL rendering a 2D game, if you could implement some sort of workaround for the collision problem, you could probably have the player change the angle slightly, like in WarCraft 3, or rotate the view slightly and/or temporarily. Collisions are a real problem for this, though.

Also, consider that most ships modelled for Nova are created in 3D first and then flattened to 2D anyway. It just makes everything easier to eliminate that step.

Just my thoughts on the idea, really.

rmx256, on Nov 7 2005, 03:42 PM, said:

Dammit, Tycho, the Mechanisto file format was easy for me- a rank amatuer! Surely you could do it!

Hint- think seed values.
Hint 2- Look very closely at where the # #'s are- and where they are to each other.

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You only came up with a partial translation. What about animated transforms? Shaders? And you never documented it

Kanerix, on Nov 7 2005, 04:08 PM, said:

Think of the asteroids... :blink:

As far as OpenGL rendering a 2D game, if you could implement some sort of workaround for the collision problem, you could probably have the player change the angle slightly, like in WarCraft 3, or rotate the view slightly and/or temporarily. Collisions are a real problem for this, though.

Also, consider that most ships modelled for Nova are created in 3D first and then flattened to 2D anyway. It just makes everything easier to eliminate that step.
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Collision is a problem with 2D and 3D games. Why do you think that the asteroids in EV don't collide with each other, or with your ship? It's a performance issue. Seemed very odd at first, but we've all since accepted it. For a 3D EV engine, with the action confined to a 2D plane, you could do just the same thing - there's no need to calculate asteroid collisions except with munitions, as is the case with EV.

For 3D object collisions, you could use bounding spheres as a simple reject check, before examining the polys more closely for the actual collision. That works well and is pretty fast.

It's actually more demanding on the CPU to check for collisions between 2D sprites - you have to examine them at the pixel level in the mask.