Alright, I have a problem that I haven't been able to figure out, that is actually not bug related! Maybe you other master plug-makers can figure out how to do it.

Here's the problem. Numbers have been reduced for simplicity. I have 1 system, with 3 spobs. Each spob has a different government and needs a different behavior:

Spob A: Player can always land
Spob B: Normal behavior- if gov likes you, you can land.
Spob Always shoots at everybody, player, AI, everybody.

I have not been able to get it to work right! I've tried various government settings, tried having the system's government be differnent governments, etc. But it never works correctly. Times when Spob C shoots everybody, spob B always hates you regardless of rating. When B works, C doesn't shoot at anybody. It's been a while, but I don't think A works when C does.

So, I challenge anyone to get this to work! There's no limitations on government design or set-up. If I have to use a class number to make C hate everybody, so be it.

Anybody man/woman/transgendered enough to get this to work? Jonathan, you pulled through a few times already... can you do it again? Azratax- it's your chance to shine, buddy

Heheh. Thanks for any help, y'all.

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~Charlie
Sephil Saga Homepage: (url="http://"http://www.cwssoftware.com")www.cwssoftware.com(/url)

Closest I can get is:
System owned by gov B.
A works fine.
B works fine.
C fires on AI ships.
C fires on play's ship when legal rating in system is bad i.e. disliked by gov B or until you demand tribute from it.

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(url="http://"http://homepage.mac.com/jonathanboyd/evn/index.html")Classic4Nova plug-in(/url)

How odd. This may be the setup you have, but I'll give it a go anyway:

System owned by government D
Government C is Xenophobic
Government B: just there to keep track of whether or not Spob B likes you

Spob A: MinStatus = -32767
Spob B: MinStatus = normal
Spob owned by government C, set to have weapon, set to always fire (Flags2 0x200 unset), MinStatus = depends on what you want.

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Yup, I think that's as close as I've managed to get too, Jonathan. Checks Yup, that is how I have it set up currently (well, at least the behavior I'm getting )

The most important thing is for A and C to work. If B has to be eliminated, so be it. That would be a completely acceptable solution at this juncture.

Jonathan, FYI, this is all related to the hyperspace system, which is basically the same as your idea. However, what I have created is a ring within the system of hostile planets (things, really)(planet C) that shoot if you get near with a repulsive weapon. Everything is spaced so that the gates (planet A) are inside the ring, and you aren't able to fly outside the ring- a "tunnel" in hyperspace.

Edit: Orca, have you tried this? I don't remember if I tried a Government D or not for the system.

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~Charlie
Sephil Saga Homepage: (url="http://"http://www.cwssoftware.com")www.cwssoftware.com(/url)

(This message has been edited by Masamune (edited 01-07-2004).)

Hmmm
A and C can be made to work fine (spob A with -32767 minstatus, C unlandable owned by xeno govt, system owned by the nasty govt)

Planet B and the system have to have the same govt, i belive, for this to have any hope of working, because since nova uses a different legal rating for every system, i dont belive there is a universal rating stored for each govt; its all done on a per system basis.
So when a spob's min-status looks for a legal rating, it gets the rating for the current system, wheather or not that's of the same govt. Anyone know wheather this is true or not?
I am going to do some more experimentation.... From what I have heard about SS, if my above theory is true, it would be a big problem. EDIT: No, this cant be the case.... how would ships go hostile in non-allied systems then? This cant be right, nevermind me.

-Az

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(This message has been edited by Azratax2 (edited 01-07-2004).)

Get govt C to be xeno and a start legal of -32767. That should do it! Or make a govt D that does nothing but owns the system.

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Quote

Originally posted by Masamune:
**Yup, I think that's as close as I've managed to get too, Jonathan. Checks Yup, that is how I have it set up currently (well, at least the behavior I'm getting:) )

The most important thing is for A and C to work. If B has to be eliminated, so be it. That would be a completely acceptable solution at this juncture.

Jonathan, FYI, this is all related to the hyperspace system, which is basically the same as your idea. However, what I have created is a ring within the system of hostile planets (things, really)(planet C) that shoot if you get near with a repulsive weapon. Everything is spaced so that the gates (planet A) are inside the ring, and you aren't able to fly outside the ring- a "tunnel" in hyperspace.**

I suspected as much. I assume you've got the projectile speed set really high to make sure it hits the ship? There's also the problem that anyone with a cloaking device will be able to fly outside the tunnel. If you made the planets the right size and shape and made them deadly, that wouldn't be a problem. Playing about with the shape of the spobs, you shouldn't need very many for that Take a ring the size of the tunnel, cut it into 4 segments, just have a mask over the ring portion and use the 4 as the wall of the tunnel. Should be able to make an impenetrable barrier that way. Though I suppose if you're using hyperdrive to get between systems then that doesn't work.

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(url="http://"http://homepage.mac.com/jonathanboyd/evn/index.html")Classic4Nova plug-in(/url)

Systems with spobs of more than one govt behave oddly.
-Az

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Quote

Originally posted by Azratax2:
**So when a spob's min-status looks for a legal rating, it gets the rating for the current system, wheather or not that's of the same govt. Anyone know wheather this is true or not?
I am going to do some more experimentation.... From what I have heard about SS, if my above theory is true, it would be a big problem. EDIT: No, this cant be the case.... how would ships go hostile in non-allied systems then? This cant be right, nevermind me. **

Maybe for AI-AI interactions, government stances are used, but for AI-player interactions, the system legal status is taken into account for planets and government legal status for ships.

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(url="http://"http://homepage.mac.com/jonathanboyd/evn/index.html")Classic4Nova plug-in(/url)

Az: yes, they do behave oddly! I know I can make A and C work together... but I still will end up having B there, even if it behaves like A. A happens to be a wormhole, so the player will never really know if it is officially pissed, but B is a landable spob, of a normally benign government. While making it always landable like A is OK, it looks wierd because the planet shows up in radar and communications as pissed off. What a pain, eh?

Jonathan: Yeah, the cloak is a problem... I made the planet's shots super-fast so that they always hit, and really rapid-fire. Unfortunately, the tunnel is too large to ring fully with just the spobs themselves- they would have to be about 1000 pixels wide. Since there are not too many cloaking ships (it's basically stealth technology in our setting), I've always planned to just ignore it- up until a certain point in the game, the hyperspace systems aren't connected to anything anyway, and at that point the ring disappears. I did hedge my bets, though, and made the ring's weapon into Eugene's Cloak Hunter-type missiles. Don't worry about hyperdrive- it supposedly doesn't exist. Jumps are supposed to be simply extended periods in normal space- conventional travel. To simulate this, all ships are normally slow-jumping, but can jump from anywhere and don't need to slow down to jump. It's the best I could do.

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~Charlie
Sephil Saga Homepage: (url="http://"http://www.cwssoftware.com")www.cwssoftware.com(/url)

I have noticed that planey B always depends on the legal status in the system, even when the govts are different. This is not a good thing.
I have also noticed that i can go kill tons of ships in other systs, and if i then go to this system, they wont attack me there. I think there is something strange about the way that the AI decides who they like, both with planets and ships.

On cloaks: What happens if you give an AI ship a cloak scanner? Cloaks work, mabey scanners do too.
-Az

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It is here. EVNEW Public Beta (url="http://"http://www.aznt.com/EVN/EVNEW")www.aznt.com/EVN/EVNEW(/url)
Stuffit is a piece of .sit.

On cloak scanners: they might work- I'll have to test- but the problem is that I'm dealing with planets, not ships, so I don't have anywhere to put a cloak scanner.

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~Charlie
Sephil Saga Homepage: (url="http://"http://www.cwssoftware.com")www.cwssoftware.com(/url)

Perhaps make all of the cloaking ships visible on radar?

Do spöbs follow the same rules as ships? They'll fire on a hostile cloaked ship if they can see it on their "radar"?

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When viewing a Terrapin for the first time, I realized that anything flies-if you throw it hard enough!

Quote

Originally posted by Zzap212:
**Perhaps make all of the cloaking ships visible on radar?

Do spöbs follow the same rules as ships? They'll fire on a hostile cloaked ship if they can see it on their "radar"?**

I'm pretty sure planets can't see cloaked ships.

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(url="http://"http://homepage.mac.com/jonathanboyd/evn/index.html")Classic4Nova plug-in(/url)

I got da solution:
Use an invisible mission to detect when the players rating has dropped enough, and when that happens it auto-aborts and lowers the player's rating with THE GOVERNMENT OF THE SYSTEM, that is, the hateful xeno govt. Use another invis mission to reverse it. Use bits to make sure that the inviso missions only run once. This should work.
As for the issue of cloaks, thats a problem.
-Az

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It is here. EVNEW Public Beta (url="http://"http://www.aznt.com/EVN/EVNEW")www.aznt.com/EVN/EVNEW(/url)
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Quote

Originally posted by Azratax2:
I got da solution:
Use an invisible mission to detect when the players rating has dropped enough, and when that happens it auto-aborts and lowers the player's rating with THE GOVERNMENT OF THE SYSTEM, that is, the hateful xeno govt. Use another invis mission to reverse it. Use bits to make sure that the inviso missions only run once. This should work.

The problem with that is you can only test the misn condition when landed. If you offend the govt, then jump into the syst without having landed, or simply offend the govt in the syst, then the misn won't trigger and your rating with the xeno gov won't change.

If there was a way to check the rating with crons then it would be doable. Of course it we had a way to check rating with arbitrary govs with crons then I'd be able to code up the most efficient counter yet, but that's another story.

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(url="http://"http://homepage.mac.com/jonathanboyd/evn/index.html")Classic4Nova plug-in(/url)

Yeah. That is a limitation. But it is a closer approximation of the desired behavior.

Jonathan: You are obsessed with counters. You are obsessed with counters.
-Az

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Quote

Originally posted by Azratax2:
**Yeah. That is a limitation. But it is a closer approximation of the desired behavior.

Jonathan: You are obsessed with counters. You are obsessed with counters.**

And to think I make fun of mathematicians for not living in the real world...

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(url="http://"http://homepage.mac.com/jonathanboyd/evn/index.html")Classic4Nova plug-in(/url)

Quote

I'm pretty sure planets can't see cloaked ships.

I've seen stations in SFA fire at cloaked Romulans...

Quote

Originally posted by -Wyrm:
I've seen stations in SFA fire at cloaked Romulans...

Really? I could have sworn I was safe from planet weapons when cloaked in the default scenario. Maybe I was just lucky.

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