Book of Mormon plug-in

Martin Turner

Well, obviously I have no objection to religion in plugins. Someone once pointed out that all great poetry is about God, Sex, or Death. If you read 'Romance' instead of 'Sex', then I would say that it is always my intention to touch on all three of these themes.

On the other hand, a game which was about any one or all three of these would (I think) have to work very hard to be interesting. I seem to remember that one version of Clavius and Beyond got a little bit too involved with Sex, and had to be removed from the EV website. Equally, a plugin where everybody dies would probably not go down too well with the otherwise upbeat EVx community.

I have to say I have been deeply turned off by almost all the science fiction I have read which was principally about religion. Dune I loved, but not for the religious bits. The later Dune novels really didn't grab me at all. (Come to think of it, Dune was almost entirely about God, Sex and Death). Ultimately, I think these are things better touched on than dwelt on in SF - for example in the way that That Hideous Strength does, or The Left Hand of Darkness.

The religious bits of Babylon 5 didn't do much for me, and I felt that Star Trek: The Final Frontier was simply silly. On the other hand, the Spielberg's light touch in Raiders of the Lost Ark and The Last Crusade worked well for me he kept the religious bit for the end, so it didn't get mawkish. The Temple of Doom didn't work for me I felt it was over the top and was sneering at Indian religion while simultaneously stereotyping and misportraying it.

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Kishkumen

First, we Mormons ARE christians. We believe that Christ is our savior, and that he leads our church via a prophet and 12 apostles just as he did during the early Christian church (before philosophy and apostacy destroyed it).
Second, the Book of Mormon describes an entire culture along with system of goverment and difficulties (enemy invasion, secret societies, organized crime, moral degeneration) that would make a good story based upon that, if it was done right. The book of Alma has a major war in which the Lamanites (descendants of rebellious children) come from their lands and capture several cities. The cities are later freed after some serious fighting. This is the era that I'm going to have the plug-in appear. It will be historical fiction using personalities and events mentioned.
Third, i was annoyed that of the three threads I've finished, all of them have new-age religion to them, and I thought some Christianity would be a nice break. I' m not talking preachy here, just something without "becoming one with the universe". The personalities will mention their beliefs and motivation, but it will be primarily a secular exporation of this society during a time of conflict.
Anyway, if I find the time to do this plug-in, I guess I'm on my own.

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Guest_UE_Research & Development_*

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If you take into consideration that Nova is set quite far in the future, imagine is a small group of Taoists left the planet early on in the age of Space Exploration, and began breeding themselves in order to achieve humans with the most energy, or chi. After many generations of such practice, and perhaps with some genetic engineering, the Vell-os race is quite possible. Read into the Foundation series, most notably when Second Foundation and Gaia are mentioned. Case in point.

I call into account serious issues with the amount of energy theoretically required to do any kind of interstellar travel (sub-light, forming a wormhole, or otherwise), issues with the actual human body and the amount of energy that would be required to keep breathable air confined within the Dart/Javelin at a reasonable pressure without any sort of matter barrier(remember that the Vell-os are human, too :)), etc, etc, etc. Energy just doesn't come out of nowhere, let alone in the quantity that allows these things to occur. And where would such a person draw such energy? If the most advanced, most finely tuned high-energy physics devices have trouble handling such energy levels, how would anything close to a normal person do so? The Vell-os are an interesting science-fiction creation that lend a great deal of color to the EVN universe, but not anything realistically feasible at this point in time. And is there even such a thing as chi (this is something a sceptic would ask)? If it were energy able to manipulate the physical universe, surely it would be noticable somehow, somewhere, by scientific testing?

Science fiction, by its very nature, is usually horrible science, despite the best efforts of its creators, unless the writer is someone who wants to expand upon an already-existing scientific concept or development. A lot of the science fiction from 50 years ago looks very tacky when viewed in the light of modern advances (computers are no longer just large mainframes in labs with spools of magnetic tape, people don't fly around in hovering cars, there are no 'meals in a pill' (nor are there likely to be in the near future)...and that's just the beginning).

(Side note: The Vell-os are of Indian descent, while Taoism was always primarily a Chinese/East Asian philosophy.)

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Equally, a plugin where everybody dies would probably not go down too well with the otherwise upbeat EVx community.

Hmm...I'm going to have to do some rethinking of my original scenario :).

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Ultimately, I think these are things better touched on than dwelt on in SF - for example in the way that That Hideous Strength does...

Agreed. Isn't the author of That Hideous Strength C.S. Lewis? Good author...I should read that book sometime.

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orcaloverbri9

Off the topic of religion:

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Originally posted by UE_Research & Development:
I call into account serious issues with the amount of energy theoretically required to do any kind of interstellar travel (sub-light, forming a wormhole, or otherwise), issues with the actual human body and the amount of energy that would be required to keep breathable air confined within the Dart/Javelin at a reasonable pressure without any sort of matter barrier(remember that the Vell-os are human, too ), etc, etc, etc. Energy just doesn't come out of nowhere, let alone in the quantity that allows these things to occur. And where would such a person draw such energy? If the most advanced, most finely tuned high-energy physics devices have trouble handling such energy levels, how would anything close to a normal person do so? The Vell-os are an interesting science-fiction creation that lend a great deal of color to the EVN universe, but not anything realistically feasible at this point in time. And is there even such a thing as chi (this is something a sceptic would ask)? If it were energy able to manipulate the physical universe, surely it would be noticable somehow, somewhere, by scientific testing?

That's why it has its own category (SF). It's not supposed to be necessarily believable—tell me, how would you get a beam of light to be destructive to a carbon-based lifeform but not the air (carbon dioxide, oxygen, hydrogen. nitrogen, etc.)? Here's a clipping of something you can find in EVC or EVO by holding apple-control-d and looking at the about text:

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AndrewWelc: Matt, it's a game, we don't have to explain everything!

Matt: Oh yeah.

The same applies to science fiction. Trust me, UE, if it all made sense, it would be boring as hell. Imagine spaceships that fly around via Saturn V rockets or something and have to fly everywhere at this "impulse" speed, and you ram into other ships to destroy them. Would that be as interesting as afterburners and engines that never run out of fuel and shooting through space at faster-than-light speeds and beating the crap out of people with lasers?

Actually, the first one would make for an interesting plug-in...

Anyhow, as I said, it's not ,supposed to make sense. it's supposed to grab your attention. Would you honestly pick a storyline that makes sense as an intriguing, fascenating one that keeps you going for hours on end?

(Brian:TangentsScience FictionEnd Tangent.exe :p)

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mrxak

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Originally posted by Kishkumen:
**Second, the Book of Mormon describes an entire culture along with system of goverment and difficulties (enemy invasion, secret societies, organized crime, moral degeneration) that would make a good story based upon that, if it was done right. The book of Alma has a major war in which the Lamanites (descendants of rebellious children) come from their lands and capture several cities. The cities are later freed after some serious fighting. This is the era that I'm going to have the plug-in appear. It will be historical fiction using personalities and events mentioned.
Third, i was annoyed that of the three threads I've finished, all of them have new-age religion to them, and I thought some Christianity would be a nice break. I' m not talking preachy here, just something without "becoming one with the universe". The personalities will mention their beliefs and motivation, but it will be primarily a secular exporation of this society during a time of conflict.
Anyway, if I find the time to do this plug-in, I guess I'm on my own.

**

Well the way you describe it doesn't sound too bad. I think as long as you don't go too heavily into the religious aspects, it might be okay. Good luck!

Azdara

Describing myself as an absolutist atheist, I wouldn't work on this with a ten foot pole. However that sounds a lot harsher than I mean to be, basically it's not because of my beliefs (or lack thereof) that I object to the plug, but to the basic boringness of any such a venture. EV is about going on missions, a basic, yet entertaining and engaging plot, and not at all suited to the detail that such a plug would require in terms of action, mission text (there would have to be HEAPS of this), and compatibility with the EV environment.

A work like this would be better suited to something like coldstone wouldn't it? Something where you can put it in context...

What I would suggest is a better idea is to maybe not be so explicit about it being a mormon plug (that'll just turn people off, they don't like having their doors knocked on, and the last thing they want is hours of religious lectures via a game), and instead have a plotline that teaches some of the values and morals that are preached by your religion, a little more subtly. Otherwise it'll do less good than yelling in the street about god. You have to be clever about how you get people to listen, if they think it's a preach job from the start you'll get nowhere.

That said, good luck whatever you do.

Oh, and search up a non-religious "Need Dev. Team" topic and read the "You will never succeed, vapourware is imminent" posts just for fun, we seem to have neglected to post all that in light of the religious debate.

~A~

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"How can I make it go faster?" -Me-

Kishkumen

Yes, Azdara, I'm planning on doing exactly what you suggested. The name of the plug will be "helaman" or "zarahemla" or such (the only reason I mentioned Book of Mormon was to see if there were any other LDS people around). It's not going to any more overtly religious than Star Wars.

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Guest_UE_Research & Development_*

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Originally posted by orcaloverbri9:
**Off the topic of religion:

The same applies to science fiction. Trust me, UE, if it all made sense, it would be boring as hell. Imagine spaceships that fly around via Saturn V rockets or something and have to fly everywhere at this "impulse" speed, and you ram into other ships to destroy them. Would that be as interesting as afterburners and engines that never run out of fuel and shooting through space at faster-than-light speeds and beating the crap out of people with lasers?...

**

Please read the issue I was addressing before saying something stupid like this again. I was simply issuing a rebuttal to what one person thought could conceivably happen in the future and his use of science fiction to back his claims.

Oh, and the basic issue with lasers and killing is that the laser heats up and melts the target. The laser doesn't get completely blocked by the air because the air is so sparse compared to the solid material of the target, and the laser is able to pass through the air relatively unhindered. I suppose that, theoretically, if you fired a powerful enough beam through the atmosphere, the energy would turn the gas within the diameter of the laser beam into plasma, creating a faint glow.

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(This message has been edited by UE_Research & Development (edited 11-18-2003).)

mrxak

Anyone else thinking of "Bible Blasters" from the Simpsons?

liquid_doom

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Originally posted by SpacePirate:
**Read more! Taoism is less of a religion than it is a way of life. However, it is usually tied in with Buddhism, which is definitely a religion.

I foresee this turning into a religion discussion, as is in accordance with the prophecy. Meh.
~ SpacePirate

**

Don't you mean Way of life? Yes, there is a definite fuzzy ground between Religious Taoism and the Philosophical Taoism, but I believe the discussion was on the Tao as it pertains to energy flow and the manipulation thereof, so that falls across the border into Metaphysics. I've read my share of the Tao Te Ching, and if you look hard enough, you can tell that there is a religious framework in place, which is why on censuses (censi?) Taoism is listed among the religions, which I admit is a little iffy theologically speaking.

But back on topic: I still have my doubts about this thing, but if you want to do it, suit yourself. I would definately make an effort to camoflauge the religious nature by concealing the stuff in allegory, but if the story is exciting and dynamic (even if you have to twist things a little), I don't think people would mind if on the ATMOS system you said "Surprise! This was religious all along!"

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Guest_UE_Research & Development_*

Suit yourself, but it'll be hard to convert a story taking place somewhere on Earth into a space story (unless you're trying to write an allegory). People who have tried the literal approach (setting asteroids to clouds, making the background green and hiding the starfield, etc) have run into problems concerning ship behavior and realism. And you might have problems finding a target audience, etc. But if you really feel the urge to do so, by all means go ahead and try.

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rebelswin_85

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Originally posted by Martin Turner:
Equally, a plugin where everybody dies would probably not go down too well with the otherwise upbeat EVx community.

sighs if Tolstoy wrote plugs... (or a plug based off of a Greek tragedy? Wouldn't that be fun...)

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