*sniff* sound butchery...

Echoboom

I am here to rant about nova's sound format.

Whose idea was it to maintain the crappy 11kHz, mono, 8 bit SFIL sound format? It has absolute rock-bottom quality, and the file size decrease is negligible. Modern computers can easily play sounds with much higher rates - even 22kHz, 16 bit stereo wouldn't have been too much of a leap, for only 8x the file size. And broadband connections would allow the extra dozen megabytes it would take to download a compressed version of the sound resource. I have a sound for the seismic charge that was completely butchered by the conversion process, and it is completely intolerable.

Here are some honest questions: Is there any way to improve the quality of the in-game sounds? If in Nova 1.0.7 the programmers could possibly add support for higher-quality sound, it would be simply incredible. As I see it, there is no need to actually rebuild the original Nova sounds in higher quality - they are good as they are. But Star Wars demands incredible accuracy and subtle nuances that, quite frankly, aren't obtainable with a sound format that was up-to-date eight years ago.

Is there any way to increase the volume of an individual sound within nova? I already have the gain at maximum, with some minor clipping near the beginning, and the sound (for the seismic charge) is still not as loud as the comBeeps that came with nova. There's got to be a problem there.

let me restate the first question: Can the programmers build in support for higher quality sounds in the next version of nova? It shouldn't take too much programming. I think that double everything should be fine - 22kHz 16 bit stereo. Or, if the nova engine for some reason can't support stereo, then increase the mono quality to make up for it.

Thanks a lot.

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(url="http://"http://www22.brinkster.com/swnova")Star Wars: Nova(/url)
(url="http://"http://forums.evula.com/viewforum.php?f=23")SW:N Forums(/url)

Lotus

Some people don't have modern computers or broadband connections.

The thing about making games is that in order to have as large a userbase as possible, you need to use things that are supported by as many computers as possible. If you use technology that originated last year, say, you cut off a substantial part of your userbase.

As for your question, I doubt it's possible using plugins.

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Dreams we dreamed at night were never meant to come to life
I can't understand the ease she pulled away her hand
This time in my life I was hurt enough to care
I guess from now on I'll be careful what I share

Echoboom

I agree. And I understand that as a reason for the use of low-quality sound in the original release of Nova.

And yet, I don't see why the programmers couldn't have written in support for high-quality sounds (I suppose we'll have to wait for mburch's opinion on this one) as technology to be exploited. After all, the area cloak was written in but never used in Nova AFAIK. So was the Increase Max outfit type.

Essentially, the capability could have been added with the understanding that if you use it, you'll need a faster computer.

Here's to hoping that it gets picked up and written in to the next version of Nova.

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(url="http://"http://www22.brinkster.com/swnova")Star Wars: Nova(/url)
(url="http://"http://forums.evula.com/viewforum.php?f=23")SW:N Forums(/url)

Azratax2

I would also like to see better sound quality. I have noticed that the sound on EV:N Win the sound is sometimes choppy (not the fault of the sound files, but of the engine's playback). I think that should be looked during any work on a new version. Prehapse some work on the sound engine to support better sound and do a better job of playback. Is it the same on macs? I know that the sound on Mac EVO was like that. I dont think its a speed issue as i am running a P4-2800mhz with half gb of ram.
-Az
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(This message has been edited by Azratax2 (edited 08-19-2003).)

KarTaniK

i think it sounds alright to me, then again, i'm not useing the built in speakers. i did a post on a Prp Crappy Speakers topic in the Just Tech section. well i figured out how to get the stereo sounding good. sadly, it wont help anyone else. it soudns great coming out of it. plus i just changed the equilizer settings a bit anyways.

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DR-EVIL

the more frills they add to sound the bigger the entire download is and the harder it is for a 56k connection to get. even if like you said they had 16 bit that would increase the size of the sound files by what 8 times like you said, so how big does that make the game? usualy anything with sound quality higher than 8 bit 11 channel requires a sound card or a good computor and i have neither. i also cant do anything about it for about half a year so lets not go into telling me to buy one or get broadband. from a developers point of view they have to make the game accesible to as many people as absolutly possible and since this game is primarily downloaded it was wise of them to keep it "small"

in my opinion the sound is fine, it could be better but its ok as it is, the path this game was devoloped wasnt to make a video game that had the latest in grafics or sound it was to make a really good game that had a in depth story and game play.

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my god what are those horrid creatures.
why those are the grunka lunkas the hardworking crew of this factorie.
there ugly tell them i hate them.

mrxak

Sound sounds good to me.

Coraxus

Sounds output from my monitor's speakers directly from my G4, but even then it sounds weird until I use headphones plugged in right from the monitor and it sounds helluvalot better. So therefore another variable on sound quality may also have to do with what hardware you have.

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Nosumus Fortiolis Quad Volimus
I'm the only guy in the universe that can make horses cry.
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jdh545

8bit sound is not even used in games. 16bit sound is concidered 'low' qualtiy, 32 bit is the norm. 22khz and 44 are also the two included in games. Nova's sound engine is rather abismal, especially on the PC version where playback is not always smooth, even on the fastest of computers. I agree, It would be great if the sound engine was evpanded to support better sound; however, I seriously doubt it will be, especially with the added dificulty of porting said changes to the PC platform.
Joe

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"Life is tough, but it's even tougher when you're stupid."
-John Wayne

asdf

Adding support for 32 bit sound would not mean that you still couldn't have 16 bit sound.

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Stephen
(url="http://"http://www.homepage.mac.com/sec222/EVN_Website/")My Homepage(/url) - Home of the Hyperioid String
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KarTaniK

one problem most people make when hooking up external speakers, is that they forget to set it to external speakers in the Sound control panel under the Output section. a common mistake. also, its common for some speakers to acculy come with software. a big annoyance. but, my downstares in completly wired for sound. i'm not sure a contractor would like it though.

anyways, make sure if your using external speakers, that you have it set to that setting in the Sound controls panels, under output. if you don't see externel speakers mention, just pick whatever is besides Built-in.

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Azratax2

On a PC, let me point out, you can just plug in any speakers and they will just work. No software, no setup, no bull****.

Yes, the EVN Sound Engine is abysmal. Especially on PC as has been pointed out. I would like to see atleast some support for 16 bit sounds and a working engine for the pc, but good sound or no, EVN is a great game.

And KarTaniK, its not the contracters who care about wiring safty, its the building inspectors.
-Az

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KarTaniK

Quote

Originally posted by Azratax2:
On a PC, let me point out, you can just plug in any speakers and they will just work. No software, no setup, no bull**.

**

let me just point out that Macs don't get viruses. at all. we have virus protection programs, but you never need them. they serve a better purpose as costers then software. back to the topic, i've heard some speakers utilize software, but i have not been able to find any, so maybe its just a rumor. and who knows, maybe other peopl's computers don't have to do anything specificly. i made it so i did everything manuly, that way i learn, instead of stay ignorant(and i'm not calling anyone ignorant(no one(not a person))).

Quote

Originally posted by Azratax2:
**And KarTaniK, its not the contracters who care about wiring safty, its the building inspectors.
-Az

**

oh ya, i forgot. good thing then. well i mean its not like i do wiring on in the inside of walls, i don't have anuff expirence for that yet.

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Azdara

Quote

Originally posted by Azratax2:
On a PC, let me point out, you can just plug in any speakers and they will just work. No software, no setup, no bull**.
**

Shows how much you know... Even if this were true it would have to be the only thing on PC's that doesn't require hours of pissing about with crummy little settings that your computer should solve for you.

Heheh... I should stop PC bashing.

Sound in nova... don't really care, works fine for me.

~A~

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"How can I make it go faster?" -Me-

Azratax2

Sorry, there is one setting you have to check - you need to make sure the mute check box is unchecked. Really, there is no reason that any speakers should need software or special settings. Settings to adjust in depth the balance, sure, but I've never found speakers that sound better with the equalizers set to anything other than the default.
I think our opinion of "pissing about little settings" on the other platform is held by any user of either platform. I find that macs have obscure settings too that need to be played with to make things work (that is, when i can even keep the os and hardware from dieing). We should stop platform bashing (sorry for starting it - i couldnt help it on the software for speakers on macs bit).

KarTaniK: On wiring in walls:
Who needs to put it in walls, when there's plenty of space outside the walls? I have propably over 2 dozen things plugged into two wall sockets, and 8 computers wired from 1 network port (port in mid-room to hub in closet out to the computers). There's about a 1 inch sheaf of wires along the wall in some parts of my room. Someday i am sure im going to trip a breaker or blow a power strip....
-Az

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KarTaniK

(quote)Originally posted by Azratax2:
**KarTaniK: On wiring in walls:
Who needs to put it in walls, when there's plenty of space outside the walls?

i don't want to PC bash either. Windows do have some good thing about them. i just need to find out what exactly.

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Echoboom

Quote

Originally posted by asdf:
**Adding support for 32 bit sound would not mean that you still couldn't have 16 bit sound.

**

Someone realized what I was saying. Adding support for higher quality sounds would not mean that the Nova sounds would need to be released in higher quality. Here are a few scenarios:

(a) Nova keeps its 8-bit sounds, but with a better sound engine. Plugins can now have better sound; no one notices any problem with the quality of Nova's current in-game sounds. Total download size increase: ~100k, or however much it takes to write in support for 16/32-bit stereo sounds.

( same as above, but ATMOS releases the sounds as a separate download so that the size does not increase drastically. Total download size increase: ~100k for the original game, perhaps another 20MB for the upgraded sounds (guesstimate).

Not a big deal, really. Not to flame anyone, but if you're still on a 56k: upgrade! It's really, really worth it!

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(url="http://"http://www22.brinkster.com/swnova")Star Wars: Nova(/url)
(url="http://"http://forums.evula.com/viewforum.php?f=23")SW:N Forums(/url)

Azdara

Okay echo, you send me the money, and i'll switch to ADSL... Deal?

Some of us are underpriveliged uni students with fiscal disadvantages, mainly being to damn lazy to get jobs.

~A~

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"How can I make it go faster?" -Me-

Echoboom

I am a uni student...and we get nice ethernet links in the dorms. Bah.

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(url="http://"http://www22.brinkster.com/swnova")Star Wars: Nova(/url)
(url="http://"http://forums.evula.com/viewforum.php?f=23")SW:N Forums(/url)

what_is_the_matrix

Quote

Originally posted by Azdara:
Some of us are underpriveliged uni students with fiscal disadvantages, mainly being to damn lazy to get jobs.

You're going to have to get a job eventually, so get used to it.

Matrix

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sniff sound butchery...