Like I said, here are some plug concepts that I think would be really cool but lack the get-up-and-go to do myself:

-A total graphics overhaul (just graphics, no changes to other stuff, like missions etc.) This may not sound unusual, but wait! there's more: This would be done by a team of great graphics people. Each person would do the ships/weapons for a different government, so that each government would truly have a unique graphical feel to it! This would require anywhere from 5 to 10 people, depending on how you define a "government", but it would be really neat if it were done. Any takers? I'm willing to do one group if enough other people are interested...

-An "alternate EVO" which is set in a similar universe (same basic map, similar governments) but with a very different "feel" - either much more comical or much more serious and gritty. This would be slightly easier than a true total conversion, but would still take lots of work.

-A plug with true alternate plotlines, where failing or aborting certain missions means much more than just "Oops, guess I have to try again!" Perhaps even, one where some of the plotlines obtained by refusing/failing/aborting are actually "better" than the direct one.

What do y'all think?

Glenn

It just occurred to me -- I'd been thinking of these from an EVO standpoint, but I see no reason why they couldn't work for EV just as well. Sorry for the oversight.

PS: Yay - I'm a veteran now!

(This message has been edited by Glenn (edited 01-24-2000).)

well, for the last one you'll have to wait for the Epsilon release of What If
( (url="http://"http://www.damnsw.net/~triplet/what_if/")http://www.damnsw.ne...riplet/what_if/(/url) ), though the EV version might be able to (no EV:O specific version, sorry)

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--blackhole

(url="http://"mailto:blackhole@mac.com")mailto:blackhole@mac.com(/url)blackhole@mac.com

Well, FH is pretty much like that - if you screw some of the stuff up, you end up stuffing the whole plug.

I have played others, but I cant remember the names (I only remember the obvious ones)

-Out

(This message has been edited by Outcast (edited 01-25-2000).)

Overriden by Weepul 884 was supposed to only replace Override's graphics, but Karrde believes that the project was abandoned or put on hold.

-prefecto.

Glenn; I would suggest you keep an eye on my upcoming plug Nemesis. It will be a total replacement plug with some new ideas ... or old ones most of us have forgotten

It won't be out for quite a while but keep an eye on the Nemesis site for updated info. Also Jim's EVO Plugin List is a Commonwealth Software site which currently has about 135 plugins listed!

Phoenix
(url="http://"http://commonwealth.cjb.net")Commonwealth Software(/url)

(This message has been edited by Phoenix (edited 01-25-2000).)

-A plug with true alternate plotlines, where failing or aborting certain missions means much more than just "Oops, guess I have to try again!" Perhaps even, one where some of the plotlines obtained by refusing/failing/aborting are actually "better" than the direct one.

Overall, this is the least used feature of EVO's numerous mission failbits, probably because it's the hardest to get right. Somebody (one of the Nova team? can't recall) posted to the EVO board a while back, to the effect that most EVO players wouldn't believe

Well, mission bits aren't altered by refusing missions, only failing or completing them, you must atleast except a mission in order to alter anything.

Refusing a mission does not effect any part of the game, so the plot would remain the same. However, accepting one mission could cancel out another..

So, in this case you would first be offered a mission, by accepting it, the second mission would be negated. By refusing the first mission the second mission would inturn be offered - by making it so the first mission was the first to pop up at the bar -

However, to do this you would have to write up two or more different pathways, meaning two strings of missions. Missions are no fun to make, therefore its not a good idea and infact a waste of time.

Wouldn't work rooster..

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I wasn't really thinking about aborting (and I obviously wasn't reading carefully enough :frown:), but the idea works well for failed missions. Your problem lies in keeping branches to a minimum, otherwise you can quickly find yourself running out of mission slots, but perhaps this could be achieved by using a limited number of key points in each storyline which cause the plot to branch.

Think about it. With EV or EVO as they stand, success is a pre-requisite for progress within the game: if you fail a mission, the plot doesn't advance any further. Imagine instead a game in which failure can open up a whole new

mikee J wrote:
**Well, mission bits aren't altered by refusing missions, only failing or completing them, you must atleast except a mission in order to alter anything.

Refusing a mission does not effect any part of the game, so the plot would remain the same. However, accepting one mission could cancel out another..

So, in this case you would first be offered a mission, by accepting it, the second mission would be negated. By refusing the first mission the second mission would inturn be offered - by making it so the first mission was the first to pop up at the bar.
**

You could have a mission that, if they refused, would say "Something about this seems wrong. You decide to travel to :Stellar Name:". If they accepted the mission, something bad would happen which would wipe out the possibility of you receiving the second mission. If you accepted the second mission, it would wipe out the first mission. I've been toying with the idea quite a while...

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Zacha K
(url="http://"http://users.aol.com/zachakplug/sigdir/index.html")The Zacha K Space(/url)
(url="http://"http://users.aol.com/zachakplug/sigdir/azach.html")Find out more about the Zachit(/url)
(url="http://"mailto:ZachaKPlug@aol.com")mailto:ZachaKPlug@aol.com(/url)ZachaKPlug@aol.com

Zacha K wrote:
** <font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial" color="808BAD">mikee J wrote:
**Well, mission bits aren't altered by refusing missions, only failing or completing them, you must atleast except a mission in order to alter anything.

Refusing a mission does not effect any part of the game, so the plot would remain the same. However, accepting one mission could cancel out another..

So, in this case you would first be offered a mission, by accepting it, the second mission would be negated. By refusing the first mission the second mission would inturn be offered - by making it so the first mission was the first to pop up at the bar.
**</font>

You could have a mission that, if they refused, would say "Something about this seems wrong. You decide to travel to :Stellar Name:". If they accepted the mission, something bad would happen which would wipe out the possibility of you receiving the second mission. If you accepted the second mission, it would wipe out the first mission. I've been toying with the idea quite a while...

**

We've done that already in NOVA in one of the storylines (the extra info in the refuse text idea). Just for info of other designers out there so that you don't beat your head against a wall like I did for about three days (probably less for people smarter than me), but mission bits are only set upon landing at return stel (misn makers will know what that is), so in order for a FailBitSet to work, you have to set the 'CanAbort' field to the can't abort option (I think that it's non-zero for that, but look it up in the bible to be certain), that way the mission doesn't just disappear into space if you fail. You will find, paradoxically, that the mission can still be aborted, but it will not 'Go away' when it fails mid mission, and when you do end up at returnstel, the failbitset works properly (although the mission will still be shown on your 'active missions' dialog box-it will disappear if you abort it, but if you abort it before reaching return stel, the failbitset wont work). As for creating a branching success/fail fork, if anyone wants a diagram of how to make the mission bits actually work (tougher than it sounds), email me, and I'll send it to you with an explanation...

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mission bits are only set upon landing at return stel (misn makers will know what that is), so in order for a FailBitSet to work, you have to set the 'CanAbort' field to the can't abort option (I think that it's non-zero for that, but look it up in the bible to be certain), that way the mission doesn't just disappear into space if you fail. You will find, paradoxically, that the mission can still be aborted, but it will not 'Go away' when it fails mid mission, and when you do end up at returnstel, the failbitset works properly

Thanks, that's useful info. Maybe I'll take you up on that mission-bit map offer at a later date.

~R~

Why would you want to win a game by losing....
In real life most success and progress from SUCCEDING in something, what is the point of an advancing a plot if all you do is refuse a mission to get somewhere.

I don't recall ANY video game inwhich you won by being lazy, I enjoy dodging missles, rockets and lasers to barely escape to a planet to get a mission done. I love taking a huge fleet of ships, blasting the crap out of my outnumbering foes to complete a mission.

I would hate to win a game by refusing a mission, there is no fun.
However, understandbly, it would be interesting if refusing a few missions led to something greater. Such as...

You refuse to help UE stop the Huron rebellion, and by refusing the offered mission, you are now able to goto Huron, free it, and now are able to purchase 'illegal' outfits there.

This is already done in EVO, remember, only a few central objectives can be done per game...

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I'm making a graphics plug, but not on the scale your talking about. Plus, don't you think the original makers of those pictures might be able to help you (then again, they might be insulted that you didn't like them in the first place).

Sincerely,
Zeta

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<font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial" color="808BAD">mikee J wrote:
**Why would you want to win a game by losing....
In real life most success and progress from SUCCEDING in something, what is the point of an advancing a plot if all you do is refuse a mission to get somewhere.
**
In NOVA we have just such a device as part of two of the storylines. It occurs at a point where you learn that the gövt you have been working with up until that point basically sux (although to begin with it seems all above board), so by refusing you receive information about where to go to side with their enemies. If you don't refuse, you become a trusted associate of this 'evil' gövt and start down the path of the dark side... **

I don't recall ANY video game inwhich you won by being lazy, I enjoy dodging missles, rockets and lasers to barely escape to a planet to get a mission done. I love taking a huge fleet of ships, blasting the crap out of my outnumbering foes to complete a mission.

I would hate to win a game by refusing a mission, there is no fun.
However, understandbly, it would be interesting if refusing a few missions led to something greater. Such as...

You refuse to help UE stop the Huron rebellion, and by refusing the offered mission, you are now able to goto Huron, free it, and now are able to purchase 'illegal' outfits there.

This is already done in EVO, remember, only a few central objectives can be done per game...
**</font>

I agree wholeheartedly with what you say, but, like we have demonstrated in NOVA, having a refuse text give you information leading to a completely different storyline can be an excellent way of a player CHOOSING between storylines. Otherwise the player will plod along doing mission after mission with no hope of ever getting out of that storyline unless he fails at something. Who here likes to lose? But then again, is losing the end of the game? In NOVA, if you fail in certain places you then have to do more to reach the end. So which is more rewarding? The storyline where you succeed at everything, or the storyline where you occasionally fail and have to do more to pull the fat out of the fire? Of course I don't recommend failing deliberately, but if you do fail, it might be worth your while continuing on and not going back to try the mission again. Just a few thoughts.

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(This message has been edited by Frandall (edited 01-27-2000).)

Wow... I seem to have opened up a can of worms with this topic... Thanks for all the input. My response to some of the comments:

First, I can't wait for NOVA, et al. They sound like great plugs.

Second, I know about the issues with failbitsets, etc. (I have written a plug or two myself.) Maybe version 1.0.2 can make changes to have these work better? Still, it could be done.

Third, I'm not saying the existing EVO graphics are bad by any means. I just think it would be neat to have a graphical replacement plug where each government had its own very distinctive "look" due to work by different graphics people.

Keep on "plugging"!

Glenn

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Do me a favor (please ). Once you get your plug done, could you send us a copy of the research you got to make the plug work.

You know. That way it will save all of us the pains of actualy working for it.

Zeta

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Rooster wrote:
**
P.S. Ever tried to map the local stellar environment onto a 2D map? Not easy, take it from me.**

Actually, you should get Redshift 3. It has this cool 3D model of the local stars out to about a thousand light-years (get info on a star and you'll see what I mean). To get a 2D view, just orient yourself to be looking down from the NCP (the galactic "north pole"). I actually tried to plot it, just for fun, but there are a lot of stars.

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Tim Morgan
(url="http://"http://lightningbolt.pair.com")Lightning Bolt Software(/url)

Visit my site, (url="http://"http://www.jps.net/ltningbolt/evo-tips")All the EV Override Tips You Could Possibly Want(/url).

even though this thread stopped awhile back, i'd love to see/be a part of this...i've never used 3d modeling other than a bored night entertained with bryce. steelsfx@netscape.net if you wanna do anything with me on ev/evn (sorry, no interest in evo...)

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Out of curiosity, how exactly did you find this topic?

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Bartender please
Fill my glass for me
With the wine you gave Jesus that set Him free after three days in the ground