Hi all.

NovaLord, the OSX native editor for EVN plugins, is at a stage of development where I need a few (just a few!) people willing to use it for some concept testing.

The version you will receive as a tester will be NovaLord 0.1a. The gövt, düde and flët editors (as well as the STR# and so forth as required) will be unlocked and fully functional.

It supports the use of data files. The "Save Templates" feature in preferences does not actually do anything anymore, so don't worry about it.

What I really want from you as a tester is for you to take the program and use it to edit a few plugins. By all means, please make duplicates. So far I haven't been able to damage anything and the data files are guaranteed to be read-only so don't worry about hurting them.

Testers would be expected to make a concept report, detailing firstly any problems but the main focus is on the interface - is it intuitive, functional, user-friendly, etc.

Some things you should know:

1. Save templates doesn't do anything, as stated above.
2. If you open a plugin then close it, you won't be able to open it again until you quit and start up NovaLord again. This is annoying but easy to fix, at the moment I'm not too worried about it.
3. The "save", "save as", "revert" menu items do nothing. "Save" will when implemented save all open editors. To save at the moment, clicking the top left button in an editor's window will save the changes to that resource. At the moment the button is marked with an "S" but this will be a custom graphic in the future.
4. The button marked with a "D" at the top right of all the editing windows is the "Drawer" button. Every editor has an attached drawer that has a list of all the resources of the type being edited. Clicking on an item loads that resource into the editor. The D button toggles the drawer between open and closed.
5. In the drawer, the Add Resource button adds a new resource. If the "Expansion" radio button is clicked, NovaLord finds a totally unique ID that will not overwrite any of the resources already listed. If the "Conversion" radio button is clicked, NovaLord will pick an ID that will overwrite resources from the data file. You'll see how it works. Click on a resource to load it. If the resource is in the current plugin, you can remove it by clicking the remove button. You change the name of a resource by double clicking it's name and just changing it. Press tab, return or just click outside the text area to make the change permanent. You can change the ID the same way - NovaLord will warn you if you are going to overwrite an existing resource. You can only change the name/ID of resources you create, not ones from the data files. To save a resource from the data files to your plugin, load the resource, edit it (so the Save button is enabled) and then click save.

Hmm, what else. You use data files by going into the preferences window, select "Use Data Files" and then click Add... to add files to the list. No need for aliases or anything like that.

You can add plugins to the data file list. Resources from plugins override those from data files. You can't use a plugin as a data file and edit it at the same time.

Oh, it's for 10.1 and above only.

Reply to this webboard or via email if you're interested, the copies will be sent probably Monday afternoon (Australian Eastern Standard Time).

Remember, it's only for serious testers who actually want to help shape NovaLord into a totally flexible and useful EVN tool.

Cheers!

Kane O'Donnell

Ill test for you. I have a lot of time ond my hands, and ill 'beat it up' as bad as i can...

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-Unreal Centipede
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Need a minor plugin made? Email me! (url="http://"mailto:Unrealcentipede@yahoo.com")mailto:Unrealcentipede@yahoo.com(/url)Unrealcentipede@yahoo.com

I'm not only willing to volunteer, but I'm willing to BEG ^_^

I've been working on a fairly ambitious plugin for a little while, and I'd love to be able to use NovaLord's existing editors.

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I'd be more than happy to do some testing and provide feedback.

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I used to jog but the ice kept falling out of my glass.

I'd be happy to help as well.
Andcarne@mac.com

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Just realized I didn't have my info on my profile listed. I just fixed that.

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I'd be willing to test it out for you.

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"Was it love, or was it the idea of being in love?"-Pink Floyd
Russell for President 2020!

Okay, I'd say that's enough people for now. I don't know how large the file will be at the moment but if you find that there is a large attachment being downloaded, it's probably NovaLord. It will be sent this afternoon some time.

Remember, it's only a development version, not even truly alpha yet!

Work it red raw, then report back. You can post here or email, I'm not worried about public comment.

Cheers!

Kane O'Donnell

Whoa. Another editor, huh?

Well, can't have too many.....

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If you have some web space, it may be better to just upload the file to that, and send the testers the URL.

That way you only have to upload it once, and email systems won't bounce it back or screw it up.

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Quote

Originally posted by Githon:
**If you have some web space, it may be better to just upload the file to that, and send the testers the URL.

That way you only have to upload it once, and email systems won't bounce it back or screw it up.

**

That makes a lot of sense. Well, I've got a V3 account from the EVOGod days, but I don't know if it's enough space for NovaLord.

I'm stuck with modem access at the moment so you're right - I don't really want to send the file multiple times.

I'll look into it and hopefully upload to the web tonight (AEST). I'll post here when it's up.

Cheers!

Kane O'Donnell

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Kane O'Donnell

Or you could just email it to me and I'll put it up.

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"Was it love, or was it the idea of being in love?"-Pink Floyd
Russell for President 2020!

Well I''ve sent it to everyone above, Russell you are free to post but of course it isn't for public consumption!

Hope you all enjoy testing it. Please post any comments, or email them to me at shado83@optusnet.com.au.

Note - in the gövt editor you will find the "edit" button (that would normally open the PICT editor) doesn't work, I have revised the PICT editor and it isn't ready to be released, so I just disabled the button.

Note - In the post above I mentioned buttons with an "S" and a "D" - these buttons have no labels as I have been trialling images for them. In the alpha version they are blank. Just remember the one on the top left of the window is Save, and the one on the top right is the Drawer Toggle.

Enjoy!

Kane O'Donnell

I only fooled around with it briefly, but I have some minor comments:

First off, I like the About NovaLord box ^_^; But for serious things...

Images of the editors. Missions, Governments, Persons, and Characters could all use changing. The easiest fix is Cats should be for Persons, rather than Characters, since he's a pers in EVN. Characters would then need a new picture, though I don't have much of a suggestion for that. Governments would preferably have a logo of the Federation or something, but at the moment I can't remember if there's such a logo in EVN already. The picture for Missions is acceptable, though it'd probably be best to not give it the picture of an outfit.

In the Prefrences when I was adding Data files, as I filled the first 'page" it didn't scroll to the bottom... which honestly isn't a problem at all, but I think it'd be preferable to go to the end of the list. That's definitly the lowest-priority thing in the world, though.

After opening an editor, opening the drawer, and clicking new resource, nothing changes, no matter how many times you click it. You have to close the editor window and reopen it, at which point all the new resources you tried to create will be visible. After there's at least one resource, the others will appear or disappear properly. I assume you know about that, but I thought I'd point it out.

Governments and Fleets don't have the little help window pop up when you hold your mouse over something. Also something I assume you know, but just trying to give a complete list.

The windows (for the editors at least, I forget if the main window does it) tend to forget where they were when you closed it. But then they also don't open in one set place. They just seem to open in random places. Also not a big problem, just a little weird.

The Fleet editor seems to default to the Quotes tab rather than the General tab like it should.

It'd also be nice if you added an option that lets you pick how the drawer acts... so you can tell it to only come out of the right, only come out of the left, or decide based on where the editor window is now. Also not a big problem, but it freaked me out when the drawer popped out the wrong side ^_^

Well, that's all the stuff I noticed when I was playing with it the other night. Hope that'll be of help. If anything I said sounds really picky or bossy or anything, I'm just trying to point out all the little things I found and things I think could help improve it, that's all.

Overall, though, it seems to be incredibly functional and stable, especially compared to what "pre-alpha" implies ^_^

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Got a chance to look at it a little. Nothing real in depth - focused more along the lines of the interface.

Have to agree with Githon that the buttons are some pretty odd choices. Well done... just a little out of place for a few. I also didn't care for the font used for resource titles. But I'm also a total font whore (I work with over a thousand fonts everyday). The black outlines is distracting, especially since they're not uniform, and block type in all caps is never the most attractive (in my opinion).

The drawer seemed to act a bit more tempermental for me. I encountered Githon's problem of resources not showing up when creating new ones but usually the new resource showed up without fail. I also found that if a new resource didn't show up, simply closing the drawer and reopening it solved the problem. My biggest qualm with creating new resources in the drawer was not being able to instantly change the name. It'd be preferable to not have to scroll to the bottom of the window then have to double click the name to change it. Instead rather be taken to the new resource automatically with the title text already selected and ready to change. I also noticed here that when I hit "Return" to finish entering the new name, the window would jump to the first resource ID listed and select the text. I also experienced the drawer randomly opening on the left side, however it didn't happen until the window was more centered in my screen.

Other more cosmetic details... Personally I don't really care for the faint horizontal lines, Aqua look. But at the same time I realize this is probably the easiest to implement. I thought another simple idea that still has the same feel as other OSX apps would be the brushed metal look like that of iTunes and Safari. I think it would do more to incorporate it as a part of Nova. I'd also be more than happy to do the graphics if interested, if you didn't have the time. But, it's purely cosmetic and by no means should be much of an issue. I'm a graphic designer so I can't help but notice these things

Lastly, another small, insignificant detail is that each time you open a new window, the new window opens slightly down and to the right, as if there were another window still open behind it. It'd be nice if new windows continually opened in the topmost left corner.

So I've mostly just griped about superficial things without any real importance but I do think making improvements to these areas would significantly add to the usability. Other than that, I absolutely love what you've done. I really can't praise it enough. It's definetly intuitive, functional user-friendly. Having immediate access to the Nova Data files is fantastic - especially adding the respective names of each resource ID and not just using the number. I can't wait to see the final release - fairly soon I hope

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I used to jog but the ice kept falling out of my glass.

I couldn't post this reply so I sent it around to all the Alpha testers, but here it is for everyone else who may be reading.

Thanks very much to the testers so far!

Graphics: Please by all means send replacements - I'm not a graphic designer. I only made those graphics to learn about tiff transparency! I just didn't want some boring list view like I had in EVOGod - I want buttons with pictures. I'm also going to change the main plugin window - I'd like to have more buttons (at the moment a few editors are packed onto one button in the bottom right) and have a switch that opens a drawer that allows the selection of any editor (even things like the PICT, RLE and STR# editors) by hand instead of having to go into the relevant high level editors. Thoughts?

Interface: I must keep the Aqua look for compliance reasons - if I use the Metal look, NovaLord won't run under 10.1, only 10.2 (it's an API thing in Cocoa). This is a bad thing. In any case I think heaps of Metal windows would look ugly, especially covered with Aqua controls.

Drawers: This is a little more complicated. The drawer should open on the right, but I have been very careful to stick to the Aqua guidelines, so it can also open on the left if there isn't enough room on the right. It has a preferred side, and that is the right side, not the left. I shouldn't really restrict it to only one side for compliance reasons.

Window positions: I'm trying to get position autosaving working, so that all windows will open in their previous state. It's on my list! The thing where they 'tile' from top left to bottom right is easily fixed - it's also on the list...

Preferences window: I hadn't thought about scrolling down to the last added row - it's also easy to implement and I will do so.

Drawer again: Same for the new resource. I will have it scroll to the newest resource and select the text. Pressing return does go to the next item down or if at the bottom, selects the one at the beginning. This is annoying. I will fix it.

Tooltip Text: Isn't implemented for fleet and govt editors. It's on my cleanup list before I move on to the next editors.

Now for a more serious problem - what is this about the new resources not appearing?? I am disturbed - I can't replicate it!!

Here's a test for you - remove all the data files from the prefs window and open a fresh new plugin, or create one. Go into one of the editors (the framework I constructed is shared by all editors so any will do) and with Expansion selected, click New Resource. It should appear in the list.

Now delete that resource and close the editor. Go into preferences again and re-add all the data files. Save and go into one of the editors again. There should be the whole populated list. If you click New Resource with Expansion selected, the new resource will be there, but it will be AT THE END OF THE LIST - you have to scroll down. Is that the case? Or is it just not there at all? Hmm.

Note that if you select Conversion, NovaLord will ignore the resources from the data files and just pick a plugin-wide unique ID - so the first resource will be 128 regardless of the data files - try that and see if it appears.

Note also that I haven't implemented the app-wide updateDrawerList function, which means that if you have an open editor and keep it open whilst editing the prefs, the resource list won't change until you close and reopen the editor - is this what you're talking about?

One other thing - I noticed that if you select QUIT from the NovaLord menu, it doesn't ask if you want to save - remember this one - Data Loss Imminent!

It's good that there haven't been any data integrity problems - have there? Oh, and nothing was mentioned about the STR# editor - no problems?

Thanks again, and keep testing. As I add editors I will release them to you for testing, probably in sets, and hopefully most of the annoying things above should be fixed progressively.

Cheers!

Kane O'Donnell

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Kane O'Donnell

"Graphics: Please by all means send replacements"
If I come across something good, I'll send it your way. Though odds are anything I find will probably be copyrighted... though I guess just about everything is. Then again, maybe we can just think up some ideas for what something could look like and see if we can get someone to make a graphic. A friend of mine is an extremely talented artist, but I don't know if she can draw anything EVN-ish.

"at the moment a few editors are packed onto one button in the bottom right"
Really? In the version you sent out? Oooh, disasters/chron/events. I don't think those are too bad to have on one button, and might actually be kinda cluttered if seperate. Depends on how complex their editors are, I guess.

"a switch that opens a drawer that allows the selection of any editor (even things like the PICT, RLE and STR# editors) by hand instead of having to go into the relevant high level editors. Thoughts?"
Like sort of access to a secondary editor while in a primary editor? Primary meaning the big window that currently exists. I think that's not only an excellent idea, but ridiculously helpful. EVN's resources are so damn co-dependant.

"In any case I think heaps of Metal windows would look ugly, especially covered with Aqua controls."
Agreed. I rather dislike that look in general. It'd be bad for NovaLord.

"I shouldn't really restrict it to only one side for compliance reasons."
What I meant was it'd be nice if there were an option to restrict it, in the prefrences. Radio buttons that'd go something like:

Drawer should pop up:
( ) On the right side only
( ) On the left side only
( ) On either side

"Window positions... It's on my list!"
What got to me was they popped up in a random place ^_^. Kinda freaky if you ask me. Well, glad you knew about it.

"Preferences window..."
Nifty. Should probably make sure all the lists of that nature scroll down when something is added to the bottom, if they don't already.

"Tooltip Text: Isn't implemented for fleet and govt editors."
I figured as much, but just wanted to make sure you knew they didn't have one.

"Now for a more serious problem - what is this about the new resources not appearing??"
Well, what I was doing was:
Created Plugin
Clicked on Govt
Clicked the button to open the drawer
Clicked on the new resource button
Clicked it again
Clicked a few more times
Closed the window because it didn't appear to be creating new resources, and I couldn't effect anything (including clicking where the resource SHOULD be).
Clicked on Govt again
Clicked on the open drawer button
Saw that it contained a number of new resources, equal to the number of times I had clicked it.

Just now I did what you asked, and sure enough, the resource appears immediately.

I have just now re-added all the data files, attempted to create a new plugin of the same name as my last test, and got an error that it thinks the disk might be full. Manually deleted it, tried again, again got the disk may be full error, but I notice it created a plugin on the desktop anyway. I just opened it and noticed it was the same as before I manually trashed it, I closed the plugin, created a new one, and sure enough I got a brand new one with no disk full error. So that's just a weird error there.

Anyway, I now have the data-files re-added to the prefrences and a new plugin, and again they immediatley appear.
I've since tried a number of things (new plugins, opening an old plugin, relaunching, checking that thing about saving templates)... and I've just noticed it's suddenly taken the data files off the prefrences again. Upon re-adding them all (Nova Graphics 1 and 2, Nova Ships 1 through 6, Nova Sounds, and Nova Titles 1 through 4) and creating a new plugin, the problem has returned. So I guess some data file thing is pissing it off. Note that when I say it doesn't appear, it just doesn't appear. It's not anywhere. Not at the end of the list, because there's no list. There's no scroll-bar. No nothing, as if you hadn't done anything at all.

Also note that, despite the fact I have all my data files loaded, having it set to Expansion still creates resources starting with 128. I assume that a govt in EVN already uses a resource between 128 and 140 at least, which means it's ignoring the data files or something.

"is this what you're talking about?"
Prefs aren't involved at all in the mysterious invisble resources issue. I certainly wouldn't be surprised if altering the prefrences didn't have a result until I closed the editor. But I alter the prefs with the editor closed. Unless by editor you mean the plugin itself and not just the Govt/Flet/Dude editor open, in which case I'm not sure I've done that, but I belive I have anyway. Either way though, adding data files shouldn't effect the editor displaying resources or not. Faulty resources, perhaps, but not none at all.

"It's good that there haven't been any data integrity problems - have there?"
I haven't messed with it extensively, but it all seems to be there thus far. I haven't unleashed it on existing plugins yet though, only ones it's made for itself. Perhaps tomorrow I'll make a copy of my plugin and use novalord on that.

"Oh, and nothing was mentioned about the STR# editor - no problems?"
I haven't messed with that at all yet. Though if the rest of NovaLord is an indication, that probably has no issues with it.

"As I add editors I will release them to you for testing, probably in sets, and hopefully most of the annoying things above should be fixed progressively."
Sounds good. But I have nothing against you updating with a single editor either, though I don't know what kind of connection/webspace you have access to and I assume that might limit your ability to do that and discourage you. Either way is fine though. But I have no problem with both helping you test editors and helping me make my TC at the same time ^_^

Just to point out, NovaLord seems to lag like mad on certain occasions, particularly when I save my prefs. Maybe it's processing all the data files and their locations, but it manages to slow my comptuer a bit.

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Quote

**
Drawer should pop up:
( ) On the right side only
( ) On the left side only
( ) On either side
**

Yep, I'll add that. I've had some problems with the drawer thingy. Heres how it goes. You click new resource and the list scrolls to the new resource and highlights the new resource name so you can change it. You can also change the ID but that is irrelevant for now. Then, when you press return, or tab, or whatever, it just selects the new resource instead of editing the next resource name. I'm not sure how consistent the behaviour is. Trickier problem than I thought!

Quote

**
Well, what I was doing was:
Created Plugin
Clicked on Govt
Clicked the button to open the drawer
Clicked on the new resource button
Clicked it again
Clicked a few more times
Closed the window because it didn't appear to be creating new resources, and I couldn't effect anything (including clicking where the resource SHOULD be).
Clicked on Govt again
Clicked on the open drawer button
Saw that it contained a number of new resources, equal to the number of times I had clicked it.

Just now I did what you asked, and sure enough, the resource appears immediately.
**

So when you don't use data files, the resources appear immediately? That's good, and helpful too. So far I haven't been able to replicate this problem, and it sounds major.

Quote

**
I have just now re-added all the data files, attempted to create a new plugin of the same name as my last test, and got an error that it thinks the disk might be full. Manually deleted it, tried again, again got the disk may be full error, but I notice it created a plugin on the desktop anyway. I just opened it and noticed it was the same as before I manually trashed it, I closed the plugin, created a new one, and sure enough I got a brand new one with no disk full error. So that's just a weird error there.
**

So you tried to overwrite a plugin? And it gave you a disk full error? That is strange. I'll try to replicate that one.

Quote

**
Anyway, I now have the data-files re-added to the prefrences and a new plugin, and again they immediatley appear.
I've since tried a number of things (new plugins, opening an old plugin, relaunching, checking that thing about saving templates)... and I've just noticed it's suddenly taken the data files off the prefrences again. Upon re-adding them all (Nova Graphics 1 and 2, Nova Ships 1 through 6, Nova Sounds, and Nova Titles 1 through 4) and creating a new plugin, the problem has returned. So I guess some data file thing is pissing it off. Note that when I say it doesn't appear, it just doesn't appear. It's not anywhere. Not at the end of the list, because there's no list. There's no scroll-bar. No nothing, as if you hadn't done anything at all.
**

If you de-select the "Use Data Files" item in the preferences dialog, the next time you open the prefs window, all the data files will have disappeared. I will fix this. I'm also going to examine the creation of new plugins - does the problem ever occur when opening an existing plugin?

Quote

**
Also note that, despite the fact I have all my data files loaded, having it set to Expansion still creates resources starting with 128. I assume that a govt in EVN already uses a resource between 128 and 140 at least, which means it's ignoring the data files or something.
**

Hmm. Does this happen when the other (data file) resources are actually listed? For example, when you open the govt editor in a fresh plugin, does it start with 128 Federation 129 Auroran Empire etc etc? If those resources aren't listed, then NovaLord isn't using data files for some reason...Is "Use Data Files" selected in the prefs window? I think I should get rid of that checkbox and just use data files if they're in the list...

Quote

**
Just to point out, NovaLord seems to lag like mad on certain occasions, particularly when I save my prefs. Maybe it's processing all the data files and their locations, but it manages to slow my comptuer a bit.
**

Yeah, it will do that when you're saving prefs - it goes through and compiles the resource lists for every kind of EVN related resource, it takes a while. Also when you're opening editors, NovaLord does a cross check throughout the app to make sure it has the latest resource lists, which causes a little slow down. My goal is to only have those pauses when opening/closing editors and when saving preferences, so that the actual editing experience is speedy.

Thanks for your help. I'll try to find out what's going on with the resource lists.

Cheers!

Kane O'Donnell

(This message has been edited by shado83 (edited 02-06-2003).)

Okay, the problem where the New Resource button was clicked and nothing happened has been fixed - I managed to replicate it finally! It was happening because if you have "Use Data Files" selected in the prefs but there are no data files added, the data source for an editor is nil, and adding resources to it has no effect on the resource dictionary (because it's nil). Of course, in the background everything is working correctly, but the data source dictionary wasn't being changed to reflect the current state.

There are a number of scenarios in which the above error can happen but it is fixed now. I'm keeping the "Use Data Files" checkbox because it means you can switch data files off temporarily if need be without actually removing all the files from the list, and then switch them back on without having to load them all over again. This behaviour isn't working properly in the tested version - in fact, it's downright crap, so I'm revising the preferences management system.

Will post later.

Cheers!

Kane O'Donnell
(1 bug down! Milestone!)

"If you de-select the "Use Data Files" item in the preferences dialog, the next time you open the prefs window, all the data files will have disappeared. I will fix this."

Well, I figured that would happen, except I don't recall de-selecting it. Though to be honest, I'm also not sure if I remembered to select it again in the first place. But I thought I'd mention it.

"Does this happen when the other (data file) resources are actually listed? For example, when you open the govt editor in a fresh plugin, does it start with 128 Federation 129 Auroran Empire etc etc?"

Nope, it's actually never said Federation/Empire/Etc as far as I can recall. Just said it was an untitled resource. However, when I went to a drop-down list of some kind, it would list everything properly (Like, when you go to the government's news graphic, that properly lists all sorts of graphics and their names and numbers. Though that reminds me, I can't figure out how to get the edit button to be clickable, it's always greyed out... I'm not sure if that's in or not, though.) It's just the data resource creation

"Is "Use Data Files" selected in the prefs window?"

Yes.

"I think I should get rid of that checkbox and just use data files if they're in the list..."

I think it'd be really nice if you could keep the option of just disabling using them, without having to re-select all of them.
Also, since it came to mind, it'd be nice if you could shift-click resources to delete more than one at once, since it can be a bit monotonous to have to click delete resource, click delete in the warning box, and repeat. Or maybe just be able to shift-/command-/option-return to select delete. Though that sort of feature seems to be missing in most OS X programs, including OS X itself.

"Also when you're opening editors, NovaLord does a cross check throughout the app to make sure it has the latest resource lists, which causes a little slow down."

Actually, I didn't notice slowdown there. Just applying/saving prefrences, and launching the app.

"It was happening because if you have "Use Data Files" selected in the prefs but there are no data files added,"

Sorry to be such a downer, but I did, in fact, have many files added. All the ones I listed, I added every time. Though it just wont let me add some of the things, and it might just be a problem on my end, because it shows them as having a different icon then the others, which is probably a concequence of updating EVN or ResEditing something.

I'll screw with it a bit on my end and see if I can fix that, though. It's possible some of the Nova files are just set to the wrong type. Though that doesn't bother Nova one bit.

If I get some more free time I'll screw with it a lot more. Normally I have truckloads of spare time, but unfortunately NovaLord came around at the same time that I started up school AND suddenly became nearsighted. So I've been going through the whole ordeal of going to classes and getting my eyes checked and a perscription and such. But when I get time/energy to work on my plugin, NovaLord will certainly get a work-out (and by 'work-out', I mean horrible cruel inhumane abuse. At present I think I'll need something like 30 govts and then all sorts of stuff to go along with those... possibly a handful more if I decide to add something else to it ^_^. I'm crazy that way)

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