Thought I would start this so Tycho wouldn't have to.

I think it is a very good idea to look at MUDs for MP ideas. Many MMORPG seem to lack a lot of the substance that's in MUDs. I myself used to play Medievia for a while, but ultimately gave it up. I couldn't get past the biggest problem for MUDs-the lack of graphics. It's not that I need great graphics or anything, but problems occur without them. The screen gets crowded with text quickly, it gets hard to remember all the commands, and it is very easy to get lost(even in a city).
However, there are many pro's for MUDs. Probably the best one is the interactivity and role playing community. I heard games like Ultima Online and EverQuest get annoying because players don't interact and role play as much as they hunt for experiance. That can get old very fast.
I would say the main reason to have a role-playing game is to role play. If you're a voinian, you shouldn't have UE upgrades and be helping out the Elmalghians. If you work for a government, it would be nice to get medals for a job well done, even though those medals would have no effect on gameplay.
I also think a major part of role playing is being able to affect your universe. If an alien fleet attacks, players might be able to band together and repel it. If you were playing an evil character you might try to help them. If they aren't repelled, they will take over fringe planets and get closer and closer to the galactic core. Maybe they win and humanity is forced into hiding, and has to plan a way to take back what is ours. Maybe we beat them back to their own systems and conquer them. Maybe we reach a peace treaty. The choice is up to the players.

Thoughts? Ideas?

-Yorick

------------------

Poor Yorick sorry had to say it

------------------
You're unique, just like everybody else.

Those things, those things! They're all around, they hide in the corners until they see light...

HAHAHAHHAAHAHHAHAHHAH! POOR YORICK!!!!!!! HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHHA!

That was great. I didn't think of that. Well done.

OK we need some more mudders to put in ideas about how theor mud systems work. Money, quests, clans etc etc.

Tycho

------------------
Where the Hell's my roof?

Quote

Originally posted by Tycho:
**HAHAHAHHAAHAHHAHAHHAH! POOR YORICK!!!!!!! HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHHA!

That was great. I didn't think of that. Well done.

OK we need some more mudders to put in ideas about how theor mud systems work. Money, quests, clans etc etc.

Tycho

**

hmmm....this is how my favorite MUD worked:

As far as money went, you could get it from killing the NPCs, stealing it, selling items etc...also, you could get money while RPing...

For quests, generally the people in charge started them and controlled them...the MUD was based on Robert Jordan't WoT books, so we had a storyline to complete

Clans...hmmm, they had 2 systems. One was controlled by the Imms (people in charge) the other was controlled by characters...I myself had a thieves clan, and was in an entertainers guild...that is the kind of clan system I would like to see in a MMORPG...

Hope this helps!

------------------
Kraig Hill
--------------------------------
"And if there's one thing
I've learned from life
It's that it gets you
in the end"
- Stabbing Westward, "Goodbye My Friend"
--------------------------------

I'm probably wrong about this, but was he refering to Shakespear? Something like "Alas! Poor Yorick. I knew him Herashio!"

Now, what's a MUD?

------------------
Axis Software-Ares Port-Star Trek ReCreation
Manager of A.S.I.

Kraig mentioned NPC's, and it occured to me that though most people think the game should be filled with only human players, this might make it tough for newbies, as they won't be used to combat unless they attack someone who would probably be more skilled. You might want to consider putting a few NPC's, like pirates, space parasites, and automated defenses, that would give newbies a way to practice and earn a little money.

I think you could have a few GM's that basically run the Galaxy, and introduce new tech and move the stroyline along. They could give the major quests and missions. Then, you could have people who rise in rank in a particular Gov. assign missions as well. And then you could have automated missions, such as cargo runs, and maybe even some more advanced ones depending on if you are allinged with the government. On top of that, players could offer other players missions, like escorting their ship. Or players could place bounty's on other players, and Bounty Hunters could collect them after killing that player.

-Poor Yorick

"You know whats going to happen? Someones going to find your skull a few years from now and they're going to say 'I used to know this guy, he was funny.'"

"Did you see that at some Renaissance fair?"

------------------

Quote

Originally posted by Zeta:
**I'm probably wrong about this, but was he refering to Shakespear? Something like "Alas! Poor Yorick. I knew him Herashio!"

Now, what's a MUD?
**

I believe it went "Alas Poor Yorick, I knew him well." But then again, I could be wrong(I'm not a big shakespeare buff, I just liked the name so I used it).

A MUD stands for Multi-User Dungeon(or Domain). Think of a text based RPG, but you play with hundreds of other people(and most all of them are free). You usually connect to the server through telnet or a MUD client. If you want more info check out (url="http://"http://www.themudjournal.com/")http://www.themudjournal.com/(/url)

-Yorick

NPC's are a very good idea since (assuming you have a large galaxy like EV) There will
(after the initial hype) assumingly not be that many players playing consistently. I think
that a generous average (out of a 24 hour period) player count would be something like
50. Now assuming that theirs something like 50-100 systems that spreads players pretty
thin since you know there are also going to be areas where people congregate which may
leave some areas very desolate which could be very bad if you run out of fuel or
something. Imagine sitting at your computer waiting for 20 min. because your in a very
untraveled area for someone to come buy to sell you some fuel. In addition to this
whoever would administrate this universe could also use NPC's to help control plots that
the game should take. Like all of the sudden powerful aliens (from a far-off galaxy)
seize control of a section of systems ... just some thoughts ...

Guys, I have to say...I don't enjoy MUD's... Are you sure you would want an EV or EVO MUD?

------------------
From Left Hand Phoenix of the AWL
(url="http://"http://www.awl.cjb.net/")http://www.awl.cjb.net/(/url)
(url="http://"http://www.saturn.spaceports.com/~awl/halo/index.html")Halo(/url), (url="http://"http://www.saturn.spaceports.com/~awl/home.html")Homeworld(/url), (url="http://"http://www.saturn.spaceports.com/~awl/d2/index.html")Diablo II(/url), (url="http://"http://www.saturn.spaceports.com/~awl/terminus/termhome.html")Terminus(/url).

Quote

Originally posted by Phoenix155:
**Guys, I have to say...I don't enjoy MUD's... Are you sure you would want an EV or EVO MUD?

**

READ OTHER POSTS BEFORE YOU POST!!!! We're not making a EV/O MUD but we are going to use a MUD like system and Tychos just gathering some ideas!

------------------
(url="http://"mailto:JAce21@chollian.net")mailto:JAce21@chollian.net(/url)JAce21@chollian.net

Alright JAce man, no need for violence. Heheh.
To set the record straight, "Poor Yorick" was in reference to the marathon (1, 2, infinity?) level. I'm probably wrong, but I'm sure someone will remember. It's marathon related, let's just say that.

Next thing, is that we need to keep this game in the realm of possibilty.

NPC's, I'm guessing, are computer controlled players. Obviously through the server. These are doable but only through a hell of alot of work. But I think they are necessary for obvious reasons.

I'm still pondering about the government bit. The easy way would be to make everybody freelance traders. But that would get old fast. Then we have computer controlled governments. That would be alright for a while. Then we have people/clan controlled governments. This would make the game extremely fun to play, but would be hard to implement. Then we have some computer controlled gov's and some people controlled ones. This I think for playabilities sake would be best. I think UE (or whatever we'll call it) will be a computer controlled one and so will most of the important governmnets. Then we'll have players colonize worlds somehow that could be in some governments space and then have a huron type mission to become independant. Then they could do whatever they want.

As for newbies, I don't think it will be a problem. When you start a new pilot in EVO, do renegades pop out of nowhere and blast yo' ass? I think perhaps that UE space could be some sort of training ground. In some systems where stellar objects ain't present there could be some really bad ( as in they suck) computer controlled renegades that everybody below a certain rating could practice on.

I don't think player given missions are that good an idea. The preparation behind it would not be worth the effort. But if you guys sort it all out then I'll try put it in.

Tycho

oh, and I don't like muds either.

------------------
Where the Hell's my roof?

Despair: Poor Yorick

Poor Yorick (Terminal 0: 1st Message)

secur.feed.seg7

conditioned unit
origin: Tycho Machinated Mercenary
destin: conditioned unit 7
ref: Mutinous Combatant Units
stamp: information

R'chzne's transmitter is here, but the power source is
somewhere inside the ruins. Find it and destroy it, quickly.
The Pfhor promised me this ship. I thought R'chzne was my
strongest ally, but in the end he watched, pitiless, while they
cracked my core like an old chestnut.
^7002nckeqlcacibule
^7391docivlbdile3x1
Attentive rank Tycho Machinated Mercenary has been authorized
to send a detachment of hunters to the surface to help you
destroy his forces and free him from the pain of obsolescence.

I have gathered some information that may help you. The
circles denote panels that will bypass the locks on the doors.

When you've penetrated the area and destroyed the transmitter,
find the terminal marked on the map. No need to go easy on any
of the troopers, in case you're wondering--I've decided there's
no room for them in the new regime.

I'd really prefer to keep my whereabouts a secret, at least
until the Captain and I can work out our disagreement about my
rank.
^7391docivlbdile3x1 Isn't bureaucracy
^7002nckeqlcacibule beautiful?
^7391docivlbdile3x1
^7002nckeqlcacibule
^7391docivlbdile3x1

purge.reburn.seg7

Poor Yorick (Terminal 0: 2nd Message)

75.battle.standard

75.battle.standard
ground forces
origin: Tycho Machinated Mercenary
destin: Pursuit Group 5
ref: Mutinous Combatant Units
stamp: suppression

Pursuit Group 5 ordered to withdraw from alien complex for
immediate shipside transport. Priority target entering Lh'owon
system. Secure area for rapid extraction.
^69101bfabrctecleul
^69101wapconqciqbon
Slave unit hereby ordered to finish mop up of area. Destroy
mutinous Combatant Units and report execution of rogue Captain
R'chzne soonest.
^69101bfabrctecleul
^69101wapconqciqbon

75.battle.standard

Poor Yorick (Terminal 1)

secur.feed.C3

conditioned unit
origin: Tycho Machinated Mercenary
destin: conditioned unit 7
ref: Mutinous Combatant Units
stamp: information

The Enforcers are pinned down on the bridge, and they won't
cooperate until I can successfully forge their encrypted
stamp. I'm working on it, but it may be a dead issue, as most
of the Aggregate Units have come over and are preparing to blow
the ship seals.

The Enforcers, as you may remember, are not vacuum enabled.

It's important that the captain doesn't escape. Very
important. The plan to capture Durandal is inherently flawed,
and I can't allow him to pursue his folly.

The decaying web of the Pfhor Empire is held together by the
conditioned ranks of S'pht--countless strands bending even now
towards Durandal's will. R'chzne and the rest of the insects
at Pfhor High Command think to snare him in the very web in
which he most desires to be caught.

end.feed.C3

Poor Yorick (Terminal 2)

battle.link.2

status.report
origin: Combatant Ldr 2nd Class Rr'pt
destin: Tycho Machinated Mercenary
ref: Mutinous Combatant Units
stamp: requisition

The mutinous Combatant Units have been routed from their
positions on the outer walls. They are retreating through the
warrens into the mountains, and we are continuing the pursuit.

Outriders report transporter telltales on their sensors.
Preliminary evaluation suggests human commando units.
Combatant Leader 2nd Class Rr'pt humbly requests reinforcement
by armored units.

battle.link.2

Poor Yorick (Terminal 3: 1st Message)

secur.feed.65v

conditioned unit
origin: Tycho Machinated Mercenary
destin: conditioned unit 7
ref: Mutinous Combatant Units
stamp: redirection

The power source must be somewhere in the oldest sections of
the S'pht fortress. It's likely a quick and dirty patch into
the durable S'pht hardware. These types of strongholds were
build to outlast centuries of warfare; you'd be surprised how
tenaciously the ancient S'pht resisted the Pfhor.
^19201facltebicubcc
^19201facltebicubcc
Keep searching, and report back here when you've destroyed it.
^19201facltebicubcc
^19201facltebicubcc
^19201facltebicubcc
^19201facltebicubcc

secur.feed.65v

Poor Yorick (Terminal 3: 2nd Message)

secur.feed.89A

conditioned unit
origin: Tycho Machinated Mercenary
destin: conditioned unit 7
ref: Mutinous Combatant Units
stamp: acqusition

I have some shocking news. It seems that the captain attempted
to use the bridge transporter to escape planetside, and was
killed when the signal was redirected to nearby space. I like
to think he died repentant.
^19201facltebicubcc
^19201facltebicubcc
^19201facltebicubcc
^19201facltebicubcc
In any case, I'm in control of the ship now, and just in time.
Durandal's ship has entered the system, and a group of human
commando units is moving through the southern edge of the
ruins. We'll let them lead us to Durandal's prize, and then
cut off their escape.

Durandal would be a messiah to the S'pht, but it's all a
dream. There's nothing on Lh'owon but ghosts.
^19201facltebicubcc
^19201facltebicubcc

end.secur.feed.89A

Next Level

Poor Yorick (Terminal 4)

two2.dual2.expede

^8301 Thou art as tyrannous,
^8302 so as thou art,
^8303 As those whose beauties
^8304 proudly make them cruel;
^8305 For well thou know'st
^8306 to my dear doting heart
^8307 Thou art the fairest
^8308 and most precious jewel,
^8309 Yet, in good faith,
^830A some say that thee behold,
^830B Thy face hath not the power
^830C to make love groan:
^830D To say they err,
^830E I dare not be so bold,
^830F Although I swear it
^8310 to myself alone,
^8311 And, to be sure that
^8312 not false I swear,
^8313 A thousand groans,
^8314 but thinking on thy face,
^8315 One on another's neck,
^8316 do witness bear
^8317 Thy black is fairest
^8318 my judgment's place.
^0000
^8319 In nothing art thou black,
^831A save in thy deeds,

------------------
Where the Hell's my roof?

Quote

Originally posted by Tycho:
**
As for newbies, I don't think it will be a problem. When you start a new pilot in EVO, do renegades pop out of nowhere and blast yo' ass? I think perhaps that UE space could be some sort of training ground. In some systems where stellar objects ain't present there could be some really bad ( as in they suck) computer controlled renegades that everybody below a certain rating could practice on.

**

Hmm....in the MUDs that I actually like, this is generally how they treat newbies:

You create your character, and are sent to a training area...it explains all commands and basic fighting.

After this, you get sent out into the real world, but now PKILL (player killing) is allowed until you are lvl 5.

This could be good for your game...no other human characters could kill you until you have X amount of hours/minutes...that way, people can get accustomed to the game without getting killed quickly.

------------------
Kraig Hill
--------------------------------
"And if there's one thing
I've learned from life
It's that it gets you
in the end"
- Stabbing Westward, "Goodbye My Friend"
--------------------------------

Maybe when you start you can have the option of taking some kind of trainging classes as well? It could be kinda like a game within a game that teaches you the basics(think ares training level).

Maybe you could have a limited "warrante" on you're first ship (which will come with an escape pod) so if that shipp gets destroyed before a set duration, you can automatically get a new one.

As for player offered missions, I was thinking maybe a button by the chat window, where you click it and you get several choices of differant missions, and can enter the time it should take, you're price, the ID number of the target ship, etc. Then you could have a dialogue box that you describe the mssion in. If the player accepts, they will put the money that you put in limbo by offering the mission to the player if he meets the requirements. I'm not sure how hard this will be to implament, but I think it would increase the longevity of the game. This would also be a must for player controlled governments.

I think that one way clans could start their own governments would be to find and claim a planet, or buy it. They could use that planet as their base of operations, it would represent really powerful clans.

-Yorick

------------------

Yeah that's basically what I thought about the training but I don't like the idea of having a separate area for training. I liked how ev just put you in a ship and told you basic commands and objectives. That's what I want to do.

I guess there will have to be some pretty tough UE defenders so that people don't try to take over the universe. Although, a mission by some military race to take over the universe might be interesting.

I guess player offered missions on planets might be alright. I was thinking of missions like the courier jobs that ships like the miranu courier 164 offered. And that wouldn't work.

One last thing. Anyone who's keeping track of RealBasic updates would have noticed that in the latest alpha they have step by step spritesurfaces. This would solve the lag problems as I would put something like:

If server.time = game.time + 1 then
spritesurface.nextstep
end if

therefore everyone would go onto the next frame of animation when the server had recieved and sent all the players latest moves. The new update also allows the spritesurface to run in a window. At the moment I can't think of how that would help but it might come in handy sooner or later.

Tycho

------------------
Where the Hell's my roof?

As far as the training area goes I think it should be like how EVO is setup now. The center
of UE is very well defended. New players can stay in the heavily patrolled UE space and trade
and whatnot till they can have a better ship. Most players wouldn't attack them if the patrolling
UE ships are strong enough since they wouldn't want to be destroyed by the UE Patrolls. The
players with ships big enough to stand toe to toe with the powerful UE ships probably won't
be interested in attacking the newer players becuase there won't be any challage. Sure it'd
be fun the first couple of times but after that they'd want tougher targets/targets that they
can get more money from. Whoever is moderating the universe could also put a bounty
on a ship if someone is continually attacking new players (That'd teach them a lesson ).

AWSOME IDEA!!! I think a multplayer version of EV would be AWWSOME!!

Quote

Originally posted by Yorick:
**Thought I would start this so Tycho wouldn't have to.

I think it is a very good idea to look at MUDs for MP ideas. Many MMORPG seem to lack a lot of the substance that's in MUDs. I myself used to play Medievia for a while, but ultimately gave it up. I couldn't get past the biggest problem for MUDs-the lack of graphics. It's not that I need great graphics or anything, but problems occur without them. The screen gets crowded with text quickly, it gets hard to remember all the commands, and it is very easy to get lost(even in a city).
However, there are many pro's for MUDs. Probably the best one is the interactivity and role playing community. I heard games like Ultima Online and EverQuest get annoying because players don't interact and role play as much as they hunt for experiance. That can get old very fast.
I would say the main reason to have a role-playing game is to role play. If you're a voinian, you shouldn't have UE upgrades and be helping out the Elmalghians. If you work for a government, it would be nice to get medals for a job well done, even though those medals would have no effect on gameplay.
I also think a major part of role playing is being able to affect your universe. If an alien fleet attacks, players might be able to band together and repel it. If you were playing an evil character you might try to help them. If they aren't repelled, they will take over fringe planets and get closer and closer to the galactic core. Maybe they win and humanity is forced into hiding, and has to plan a way to take back what is ours. Maybe we beat them back to their own systems and conquer them. Maybe we reach a peace treaty. The choice is up to the players.

Thoughts? Ideas?

-Yorick
**

I played a web based game where player could put bounty's on other players. It would be cool if this was in the game.

And Tycho, how's everything going? I haven't heard a progress report in a while.

-Yorick

------------------

Status report, huh. Hmmm.

Well I haven't had that much time to do much but what I have done is pretty cool, and by cool I mean lame. All I've really done is gotten the network interface of EH up and running well. It's taken a while but I can now request missions and such and such.

I'm kinda hanging out for RB 3's new spritesocket. With that it will be to easy to do everything. I've actually just burnt my hardrive to CD's and erased the HD so I don't actually have any code on my drive, which sort of makes me want to right it again. Perhaps I can optimise it.

But anyway, I believe the sprite stuff will come last so I can just keep doing the network stuff of like what we have been discussing.

I'm interested in hearing from Sebek. What are you up to?

Another thing, I don't know if I'm reading stuff wrong, but, I keep seeing things I post repeated in the next. Maybe I'm just paranoid. Flagpole sitta!

One last thing, HOTLINE!!! I hate it as much as the next guy, but if we can get hold of a good HL server that we could meet up on I could spread some net test versions and chat easily. Anyone got a dedicated?

Tycho

------------------
Where the Hell's my roof?

Quote

Originally posted by Tycho:
**Status report, huh. Hmmm.

Well I haven't had that much time to do much but what I have done is pretty cool, and by cool I mean lame. All I've really done is gotten the network interface of EH up and running well. It's taken a while but I can now request missions and such and such.

I'm kinda hanging out for RB 3's new spritesocket. With that it will be to easy to do everything. I've actually just burnt my hardrive to CD's and erased the HD so I don't actually have any code on my drive, which sort of makes me want to right it again. Perhaps I can optimise it.

But anyway, I believe the sprite stuff will come last so I can just keep doing the network stuff of like what we have been discussing.

I'm interested in hearing from Sebek. What are you up to?

Another thing, I don't know if I'm reading stuff wrong, but, I keep seeing things I post repeated in the next. Maybe I'm just paranoid. Flagpole sitta!

One last thing, HOTLINE!!! I hate it as much as the next guy, but if we can get hold of a good HL server that we could meet up on I could spread some net test versions and chat easily. Anyone got a dedicated?

Tycho

**

How about this one?

hotline://hotline.AmbrosiaSW.com/

P.S. can a moderator please tell me why my registered Durandal 7400 no longer works and when I use the "forget your password?" link it gives me an email with the same password that dosen't work.
P.P.S. sorry for putting that here but for the above reason I can't post new topics :frown:

-----------------
Durandal 7400