I'm putting a price on your head!!!

There are certain things we need. I'm going to bribe you all to get us what we need.

As far as I can figure out, Port Authority is a no-show. So who's going to make an equivalent utility?

You are. And I'm going to reward you for it.

Specifications:
Must run on OS X and be free of charge.
Must convert EV and EVO plug-ins and data files into EVN equivalents via drag and drop.
Must be able to convert multiple files at a time (everything in a folder, for example).
Converted files must work immediately as they would in EV or EVO, just without the extra features. That means intelligent conversions across the board. Spöbs and s˙sts have changed a bit, but the utility will need to take care of it.
If there are other specifications that people would like, post 'em soon and I'll add them if they're realistic.

What is the reward?
5 karma points if you can get it working and released in a month (as soon as the karma system is back to normal with the board switch). The number of karma points rewarded will decrease by 1 per month, so you have 4 months to complete it. However, completing this at any time, assuming it is the first such utility released, will earn at least one karma point.

Now I really have no idea how long something like this would take, but I think it's a realistic goal to accomplish given proper motivation. It's something that we NEED, and it's high time somebody got it done. At this point I'd be willing to do it myself if I knew how. Unfortunately I don't, so somebody with resource-manipulation programming experience (or somebody willing to learn) will have to step up.

Well, SpacePort is mostly done and works fairly well... Perhaps you remember my topic to make a "Perfect EV/EVO > EVN Converter", or something? Well, I fixed a fairly large bug keeping me from converting blackhole's TC, and now it works without a hitch. It still has a few inconsistencies, but for the most part it works great...

I'll make a stand-alone version from the current build that I have.

I'm not cheating, am I?

~ SP

I probably couldn't even start this until I got better at programming and figured out the differences in data files between EV/EVO and EVN. Which is a shame, since I was planning on giving myself some Nova plugin editing related programming project at some point.
I do have a suggestion though. Do this more often. We've already held Challenges for writing plugins, why not Challenges for writing plugin editing and conversion programs? You'd probably not get as many results, since there are more people who can make a plugin than there are people who can write programs, but you'd still probably get some response.

Just as a reminder, there is a version of SpacePort bundled with EVONE (Open an EV/EVO plugin, go to tools:convert to evn plugin). My latest (unreleased) build has a few less bugs than that one, but it should give you a fair preview.

I requested that Jeff make this a free feature of EVONE, so even though you may have to suffer through the timer, the feature should still work.

Perhaps I could make spacePort limited-open-source... if you want to see the code, ask... It's a RB 4.5.2 project.

~ SpacePirate

WraithSniper, on Sep 8 2004, 08:41 PM, said:

I probably couldn't even start this until I got better at programming and figured out the differences in data files between EV/EVO and EVN. Which is a shame, since I was planning on giving myself some Nova plugin editing related programming project at some point.
I do have a suggestion though. Do this more often. We've already held Challenges for writing plugins, why not Challenges for writing plugin editing and conversion programs? You'd probably not get as many results, since there are more people who can make a plugin than there are people who can write programs, but you'd still probably get some response.
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Notice the topic is plural?

If you have suggestions for apps we need, go right ahead and make them.

SpacePirate, on Sep 8 2004, 09:18 PM, said:

Just as a reminder, there is a version of SpacePort bundled with EVONE (Open an EV/EVO plugin, go to tools:convert to evn plugin). My latest (unreleased) build has a few less bugs than that one, but it should give you a fair preview.

I requested that Jeff make this a free feature of EVONE, so even though you may have to suffer through the timer, the feature should still work.

Perhaps I could make spacePort limited-open-source... if you want to see the code, ask... It's a RB 4.5.2 project.

~ SpacePirate
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Open-source would be great. If nothing else it'd be a good learning experience.

Yeah, you guys certainly have me to blame for a lack of action on PortAuthority. Dr. Sutherland provided me with all the code I would have needed to complete the project about 9 months ago.

Unfortunately, University has proven very time intensive, and I don't think it's going to see the light of day any time soon.

Dave @ ATMOS

pipeline, on Sep 9 2004, 07:28 AM, said:

Yeah, you guys certainly have me to blame for a lack of action on PortAuthority. Dr. Sutherland provided me with all the code I would have needed to complete the project about 9 months ago.

Unfortunately, University has proven very time intensive, and I don't think it's going to see the light of day any time soon.
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We understand, and realistically we can't expect anything from you other than Nova updates (if they're needed). Your work is done, and I specifically did not want to bug you about it for this reason. Busy-ness is part of life, and sometimes the less-busy members of the community need to build the tools that are missing.

And of course this goes for everybody. Nobody is expected to complete anything. It'd just be nice if you did. And sometimes a little motivation can help it get done sooner (I hope).

How exactly does karma work with this new board system? I haven't seen any karma ratings so far.

EDIT: OK, so I'm blind... but still, how does the new rating thingie work?

This post has been edited by Picquilarius : 09 September 2004 - 09:52 PM

Well, I spent a few hours tweaking and adding in drag-and-drop support. Nonetheless, it is done. I give you SpacePort 1.0.1, weighing in at 3.08 MB.

There is also a lite version (920 KB) available, which doesn't include the optional "Port Resources folder".

Feel free to comment, especially on the drag and drop... I don't trust that new-fangled technology. :unsure:

I also completely redid the interface... but since none of you have seen the original application interface for it, you'll have to take my word for it.

~ SpacePirate

Wow, that was quick! Unfortunately, I'm a Windows user and will be unable to use the application. But, if you'll permit me a few stupid questions about it's capabilities?

- Shield/Armor Recharge - In Override, armor recharged at the same rate as shields. Will Space Port automatically add the proper armor regeneration for ships and outfits?

Also in Override, outfits with ModType 5 (faster shield recharge) added one more percentage point of shield recharge per second. This means that the actual recharge value gained (for both shields and armor) would be unique to each ship type (or base shield value) including outfit shield mods. Nova changed this behavior, so how does Space Port convert these values? Does it just pick a median value? Is it based on the shield values of the ships in the plug-in?

- Outfits granted via missions - Override used the PayVal field in the misn resource to grant weapons on accepting or completing missions. This, of course, changed in Nova. Will Space Port set up the proper Gxxx operators in the OnAccept or OnSuccess set strings?

Also, Override used the 0x0020 flag to remove pre-paid outfits if the player failed or aborted the mission. This is now the fail if scanned flag in Nova. Will Space Port set up the proper Dxxx operators in the OnFail and OnAbort fields if this flag is checked?

- Fail If Scanned missions - Override had a seperate field (FailIfScanned) to denote this, which worked in conjunction with the ScanGovt field. The ScanGovt field contained the RID of the government which considered this cargo illegal. Also, all governments other than the noted govt's enemy would consider this cargo illegal. How does Space Port handle this conversion? Does it assign the proper 0x0020 flag? How does it handle the ScanMask field? Does it properly set up the ScanMask in both the misn and govt resources?

-TurretYDisp/ShotXOffset - Will Space Port evaluate these Override ship resource fields and set up the proper TurretPosY and GuidedPosX in the appropriate shan?

Sorry for all the stupid questions, but I'm just curious about how completely the application will port plug-ins (or better yet, how much is possible). If I still had a Mac, I'd try it out for myself...

SpacePirate, on Sep 10 2004, 06:58 AM, said:

Well, I spent a few hours tweaking and adding in drag-and-drop support. Nonetheless, it is done. I give you SpacePort 1.0.1, weighing in at 3.08 MB.

There is also a lite version (920 KB) available, which doesn't include the optional "Port Resources folder".

Feel free to comment, especially on the drag and drop... I don't trust that new-fangled technology. :unsure:

I also completely redid the interface... but since none of you have seen the original application interface for it, you'll have to take my word for it. View Post

Duuuude. Very cool. I'll have to check out the app in greater detail, and I'd be interested in hearing the answers to the questions below, but you're pretty much guaranteed to get all of the karma (as soon as the system is implemented). It doesn't fit exactly with the specifications, but assuming everything works, it looks great.

slouch, on Sep 10 2004, 09:51 AM, said:

Wow, that was quick! Unfortunately, I'm a Windows user and will be unable to use the application. But, if you'll permit me a few stupid questions about it's capabilities?

- Shield/Armor Recharge - In Override, armor recharged at the same rate as shields. Will Space Port automatically add the proper armor regeneration for ships and outfits?

Also in Override, outfits with ModType 5 (faster shield recharge) added one more percentage point of shield recharge per second. This means that the actual recharge value gained (for both shields and armor) would be unique to each ship type (or base shield value) including outfit shield mods. Nova changed this behavior, so how does Space Port convert these values? Does it just pick a median value? Is it based on the shield values of the ships in the plug-in?

- Outfits granted via missions - Override used the PayVal field in the misn resource to grant weapons on accepting or completing missions. This, of course, changed in Nova. Will Space Port set up the proper Gxxx operators in the OnAccept or OnSuccess set strings?

Also, Override used the 0x0020 flag to remove pre-paid outfits if the player failed or aborted the mission. This is now the fail if scanned flag in Nova. Will Space Port set up the proper Dxxx operators in the OnFail and OnAbort fields if this flag is checked?

- Fail If Scanned missions - Override had a seperate field (FailIfScanned) to denote this, which worked in conjunction with the ScanGovt field. The ScanGovt field contained the RID of the government which considered this cargo illegal. Also, all governments other than the noted govt's enemy would consider this cargo illegal. How does Space Port handle this conversion? Does it assign the proper 0x0020 flag? How does it handle the ScanMask field? Does it properly set up the ScanMask in both the misn and govt resources?

-TurretYDisp/ShotXOffset - Will Space Port evaluate these Override ship resource fields and set up the proper TurretPosY and GuidedPosX in the appropriate shan?

Sorry for all the stupid questions, but I'm just curious about how completely the application will port plug-ins (or better yet, how much is possible). If I still had a Mac, I'd try it out for myself...
View Post

Indeed. All of these quirks I hope are converted correctly?

Hmm. Do you think you could make it recognize movie files in a folder you're converting and leave them untouched?

mrxak, on Sep 10 2004, 10:41 AM, said:

Hmm. Do you think you could make it recognize movie files in a folder you're converting and leave them untouched?
View Post

Yeah, sure. Are they a standard quicktime movie? For a quick fix, just remove them from the folder (I'll assume you are converting a folder) for now... I don't get any data from them. However, it shouldn't modify your files anyways... It should be creating a new file for each item with a resource fork found... If the file has a resource fork, it will be run through the converter, however, you can just delete files that do not have any plugin data (s˙st, spöb, etc) in them.

As a side, did you include the EV Basics option? That includes the base files Nova needs to start up... just in case your TC doesn't sync up for some reason.

slouch, on Sep 10 2004, 09:51 AM, said:

Wow, that was quick! Unfortunately, I'm a Windows user and will be unable to use the application. But, if you'll permit me a few stupid questions about it's capabilities?

Absolutely. Anyone, feel free to ask questions; it can only make it better.

slouch, on Sep 10 2004, 09:51 AM, said:

- Shield/Armor Recharge - In Override, armor recharged at the same rate as shields. Will Space Port automatically add the proper armor regeneration for ships and outfits?

Also in Override, outfits with ModType 5 (faster shield recharge) added one more percentage point of shield recharge per second. This means that the actual recharge value gained (for both shields and armor) would be unique to each ship type (or base shield value) including outfit shield mods. Nova changed this behavior, so how does Space Port convert these values? Does it just pick a median value? Is it based on the shield values of the ships in the plug-in?

As for these two... I remember doing something with the armor recharge, but not exactly what. I'll have to look through the code again.

slouch, on Sep 10 2004, 09:51 AM, said:

- Outfits granted via missions - Override used the PayVal field in the misn resource to grant weapons on accepting or completing missions. This, of course, changed in Nova. Will Space Port set up the proper Gxxx operators in the OnAccept or OnSuccess set strings?

This I have.

slouch, on Sep 10 2004, 09:51 AM, said:

Also, Override used the 0x0020 flag to remove pre-paid outfits if the player failed or aborted the mission. This is now the fail if scanned flag in Nova. Will Space Port set up the proper Dxxx operators in the OnFail and OnAbort fields if this flag is checked?

I'm pretty sure I have these, but I can certainly double-check.

slouch, on Sep 10 2004, 09:51 AM, said:

- Fail If Scanned missions - Override had a seperate field (FailIfScanned) to denote this, which worked in conjunction with the ScanGovt field. The ScanGovt field contained the RID of the government which considered this cargo illegal. Also, all governments other than the noted govt's enemy would consider this cargo illegal. How does Space Port handle this conversion? Does it assign the proper 0x0020 flag? How does it handle the ScanMask field? Does it properly set up the ScanMask in both the misn and govt resources?

This, unfortunately, was a bit quirky. Because of the huge difference between the older and newer version, this needs to be done by hand. It could be automated to an extent, but if that were to be the case, it would need to scan every data file that would potentially be used with the plugin for governments, and assign a checkbox for each government. All hell would break loose if we ran out of checkboxes (it's possible!)...

Of course, I do go through the trouble to explain how to do this in the output log, as well as mention which missions are scanned for by which government, so converting this by hand takes only literally a few minutes.

slouch, on Sep 10 2004, 09:51 AM, said:

-TurretYDisp/ShotXOffset - Will Space Port evaluate these Override ship resource fields and set up the proper TurretPosY and GuidedPosX in the appropriate shan?

Yeah... This was one of the last features I added in, actually. While playing EV, I realized that some ships had Y turret displacement (mainly the kestrel), so I looked into this. In EVO, I'm pretty sure there is an X displacement as well, but it has been a while since I've checked. But if it is there in EVO, it should be in SpacePort.

slouch, on Sep 10 2004, 09:51 AM, said:

Sorry for all the stupid questions, but I'm just curious about how completely the application will port plug-ins (or better yet, how much is possible). If I still had a Mac, I'd try it out for myself...
View Post

No problem at all... In fact, none of those were stupid at all. Unfortunately, I don't know how to decode the .rez format, or the .bin format which would allow me to write a similar application for windows. I would have to work within the .bin format for older EV/EVO files in order to preserve the resource fork, and transpose those values into the newer .rez format.

In general, how the application works is incredibly simple... It takes all of the values that are in an EV or EVO file, and simply rearranges the byte order right down the line such that they correspond to the newer EVN format. this was a simple matter of knowing the EV, EVO, and EVN templates. DWRDs could easily be changed to HWRD and DLNG, and I could even convert a DWRD to a standard integer value, and append it to a CSTR. In that manner, everything could theoretically be converted...

The only snags are the Scanmask and the missile jamming... which in my opinion were the largest engine changes of them all. Oh, and flares were removed, which sucks... IIR, I left a note in the log and treated flares as bombs with no strength... so it would still be in the game, but would have virtually no effect on missiles.

mrxak, on Sep 10 2004, 10:35 AM, said:

Duuuude. Very cool. I'll have to check out the app in greater detail, and I'd be interested in hearing the answers to the questions below, but you're pretty much guaranteed to get all of the karma (as soon as the system is implemented). It doesn't fit exactly with the specifications, but assuming everything works, it looks great.

I'll try to get everything as close as possible... I still have a bunch of old topics bookmarked where everyone discussed the difference between the EV/O and EVN engines... Most were complaining about errors in the official ports (most of which didn't exist in my unofficials), but there was some very valuable information in there. I'll constantly update these to get them as close to perfect as possible, but in most cases, it will only be an estimation. And some things, like acceleration of particles (making backwards-fired shots have a longer range... MP?) and the flares were removed completely, so there is nothing I can do...

All the same, any comments are always appreciated. And as I promised, if anyone wants the source, feel free to email me.

~ SP

Sounds fantastic! And, yeah, all of the questions I raised earlier came directly from my experience with the official EV and EVO ports. I'd love to see an update for those, whether they're official or not.

slouch, on Sep 10 2004, 01:05 PM, said:

Sounds fantastic! And, yeah, all of the questions I raised earlier came directly from my experience with the official EV and EVO ports. I'd love to see an update for those, whether they're official or not.
View Post

That could be arranged... I haven't had the unofficials up since the officials came out, but hey...

mrxak, on Sep 10 2004, 10:41 AM, said:

Hmm. Do you think you could make it recognize movie files in a folder you're converting and leave them untouched?

Okay, I'm experimenting now... If all goes well, it should ignore 'VfW ' (avi), MPEG, mpg4, and MooV files. Anything else?

Geez, I'm really wishing I documented this better.

New builds should now be available, from the same links. This includes two tiny bugfixes, and implements mrxak's movie suggestion. Again, it tries to convert all files regardless of their type. However, converting as a folder should ignore any applications, quicktime movies, avi movies, and MPEG/mpeg4 files.

This post has been edited by SpacePirate : 10 September 2004 - 12:58 PM

SpacePirate, on Sep 10 2004, 12:43 PM, said:

Yeah, sure. Are they a standard quicktime movie? For a quick fix, just remove them from the folder (I'll assume you are converting a folder) for now... I don't get any data from them. However, it shouldn't modify your files anyways... It should be creating a new file for each item with a resource fork found... If the file has a resource fork, it will be run through the converter, however, you can just delete files that do not have any plugin data (s˙st, spöb, etc) in them.

<snip>

All the same, any comments are always appreciated. And as I promised, if anyone wants the source, feel free to email me.
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Nova supposedly recognizes any quicktime-playable movie. But yeah, it's good that the original files are not removed. Choosing where the new files go might be a nice feature though ;).

Just how often do you want to give out the code? Would you rather I wait until it's more finalized, or do you want to give it to me now, and then again after any updates?

The other question is what other bounties need to be posted? What apps are we just plain missing?

mrxak, on Sep 10 2004, 09:38 PM, said:

The other question is what other bounties need to be posted? What apps are we just plain missing?
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Well, every now and then, when someone asks for multi-EV, Matt refers to an application he made tat directly connected the ip of two computers and let them duke it out in a single system. I'm sure it would be really boring, and it was for the origonal EV, but it would still be cool just to use it a couple of times. I'd guess this requires source code though, so none of us can do it...

FluffyWithTeeth, on Sep 10 2004, 05:52 PM, said:

Well, every now and then, when someone asks for multi-EV, Matt refers to an application he made tat directly connected the ip of two computers and let them duke it out in a single system. I'm sure it would be really boring, and it was for the origonal EV, but it would still be cool just to use it a couple of times. I'd guess this requires source code though, so none of us can do it...
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I was thinking more along the lines of utilities anyway