I'm running into a potentially big issue here- As I'm developing the galactic map for our TC, I haven't yet put in filler systems, so that there are multiple instances of the same spob in multiple systems. Still with me? Problem is, Nova doesn't appear to track what system you last landed in, only what spob. So when I reload my pilot file, about half the time I end up in the wrong system!

Is this a known bug/issue/problem? Any chance it's going to get fixed in 1.0.4? Please please please please.....

What I really want to do is kind of trick Nova into thinking that ALL my spobs aren't transitory so that I can still use the random destination options in missions- by putting a second instance of them in a secret, always visible system. But if this is impossible, I might just end up putting in a message that says, "Please don't go here!" and do it anyway!

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~Charlie

Quote

Originally posted by Masamune:
**I'm running into a potentially big issue here- As I'm developing the galactic map for our TC, I haven't yet put in filler systems, so that there are multiple instances of the same spob in multiple systems. Still with me? Problem is, Nova doesn't appear to track what system you last landed in, only what spob. So when I reload my pilot file, about half the time I end up in the wrong system!

Is this a known bug/issue/problem? Any chance it's going to get fixed in 1.0.4? Please please please please.....

What I really want to do is kind of trick Nova into thinking that ALL my spobs aren't transitory so that I can still use the random destination options in missions- by putting a second instance of them in a secret, always visible system. But if this is impossible, I might just end up putting in a message that says, "Please don't go here!" and do it anyway!

**

It's probably not a bug. It's probably Nova getting confused because a single spob is used multiple times. Think about it this way. When you take off from a spob, you don't appear just in the system that it's in, you also appear directly above the spob itself. Because of this, it's more important for Nova to know which spob you landed on rather than the system that you're in when you do land, because all that's necessary is that you take off from the same spob that you landed on. Knowing the system is redundent, because obviously, the spob will be in a (specific) system when you land on it. Because there are multiple instances of the same spob, Nova doesn't really care which system you're in, as long as you take off from the correct spob. Of course, I could be completely off the mark with this assessment, but it's a pretty good explanation.

Matrix

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"Nothing is fool-proof to a sufficiently talented fool."

It's a very fair assessment, matrix, and its the same conclusion I arrived at. But it is still darn annoying. In pre-nova days, spobs were hard-linked to a specific system, but in Nova, this isn't the case, multiple systems can include the same spob, to restate the problem :). Personally, I think it is still a bit of a bug that MCB didn't upgrade the pilot save to account for this issue when he removed the hard-link. In most cases, yes, knowing the system would be redundant, but in this case, it's important- and that extra 4 bytes in memory isn't going to hurt that much!

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~Charlie

The solution's simple: don't put the same spöb in multiple systems.

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If it was that simple, I wouldn't have needed to post here....

I need that second, static instance in order for Nova to be able to pick a random destination. It would really be kind of lame to have to make a specific mission for each and every cargo mission destination, not to mention eat missions at a huge rate.

Really, I've made up my mind already on how to handle this, what I'd like to know now is if there is any chance this behavior will be fixed in 1.0.4?

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~Charlie

Ignore the rest if the first part is wrong, but it sounds like you're just trying to make the basic cargo missions have random destinations. You can do this with nova tools, plain resedit, and I think MC by using the 'pick random spob of this govt' option in the destination field. It's one of those funny things like setting the field to -32000+govt id. Look in the Bible for actual value.

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I like long walks, especially those taken by people who annoy me.

This will not be fixed in 1.0.4. ATMOS says that mcb made them promise not to do what you are doing when he removed the syst field from the spob resource. Basically, you can now have the spob in multiple syst, but only one should be visible at a time. This way you don't have to create duplicate spobs for when you change systems if only one planet in the syst changes (ie you destroy planet A, but planets B and C remain, so syst two calls spobs B and C and has more asteroids, but no A).

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"Was it love, or was it the idea of being in love?"-Pink Floyd
"Peace is not an absence of war, it is a virtue, a state of mind, a disposition for benevolence, confidence, justice." -Baruch Spinoza
Russell for President 2020!

Thanks Russell- that's what I wanted to know. I think it's a shame, though, that he didn't just add a current system field to the save file, and let them have at it! Now, I'm just going to have do what ATMOS wouldn't. We'll see- I'll let you all know if my solutions work.

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~Charlie

Quote

Originally posted by Masamune:
**I'm running into a potentially big issue here- As I'm developing the galactic map for our TC, I haven't yet put in filler systems, so that there are multiple instances of the same spob in multiple systems. Still with me? Problem is, Nova doesn't appear to track what system you last landed in, only what spob. So when I reload my pilot file, about half the time I end up in the wrong system!

Is this a known bug/issue/problem? Any chance it's going to get fixed in 1.0.4? Please please please please.....

What I really want to do is kind of trick Nova into thinking that ALL my spobs aren't transitory so that I can still use the random destination options in missions- by putting a second instance of them in a secret, always visible system. But if this is impossible, I might just end up putting in a message that says, "Please don't go here!" and do it anyway!

**

This probably occurs when EVN loads your last-spob-landed, then checks for the spob-location, which it loads as the first one it comes across in the data files, hence the wrong placement..

So basically, don't do it.

_bomb

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"I want to tell you about a time I almost died...."

Well, bomb, you're right. Don't do it, and as I've just found out for sure, it won't buy you anything. :frown: Too bad about that... I'm going to miss random cargo missions. But we'll make up for it, don't worry. Carribean, the most innovative plug, my ass! (No offense to Carribean meant :))

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~Charlie

Quote

Originally posted by Masamune:
**Well, bomb, you're right. Don't do it, and as I've just found out for sure, it won't buy you anything.:frown: Too bad about that... I'm going to miss random cargo missions. But we'll make up for it, don't worry. Carribean, the most innovative plug, my ass! (No offense to Carribean meant :))

**

You do know about the "inhabited spob of govt" or "inhabited spob of class" conditions for missions, yes? It will randomly send you to any world owned by a government or class of governments.

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"Was it love, or was it the idea of being in love?"-Pink Floyd
"Peace is not an absence of war, it is a virtue, a state of mind, a disposition for benevolence, confidence, justice." -Baruch Spinoza
Russell for President 2020!

Quote

Originally posted by Bomb:
**This probably occurs when EVN loads your last-spob-landed, then checks for the spob-location, which it loads as the first one it comes across in the data files, hence the wrong placement..

So basically, don't do it.

_bomb

**

But it'd be the first "visible" syst it comes across in the datafiles right? So as long as you set mutually exclusive visbits, those systs can share the same spob.

Or am I totally wacked?

Pan Sola

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Quote

Originally posted by Pan Sola:
**But it'd be the first "visible" syst it comes across in the datafiles right? So as long as you set mutually exclusive visbits, those systs can share the same spob.

Or am I totally wacked?

Pan Sola

**

That is correct. It allows you to reuse spobs from the "old" system in the "new" system when you change the visbits so the old vanishes and the new appears.

For instance, someone was talking a while ago about making the solar system with visbits set by crons to make the planets orbit the sun. This would allow you to not have to have different spobs in each system, which would make the missions work smoothly.

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"Was it love, or was it the idea of being in love?"-Pink Floyd
"Peace is not an absence of war, it is a virtue, a state of mind, a disposition for benevolence, confidence, justice." -Baruch Spinoza
Russell for President 2020!

Quote

For instance, someone was talking a while ago about making the solar system with visbits set by crons to make the planets orbit the sun. This would allow you to not have to have different spobs in each system, which would make the missions work smoothly.

That person wasn't me, but it is what we're doing. With that in mind, it should be fairly apparent that the missions are not working as smoothly as hoped! MCB, lazy, overworked legend that he is, really should have put more umph in the visbit system. There are all sorts of solutions to this problem he could have done with minimal trouble, and I say that as a Mac programmer. But oh well, bitching and moaning won't fix anything, and I think I've done quite enough of that already.

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~Charlie

Quote

Originally posted by Masamune:
**That person wasn't me, but it is what we're doing. With that in mind, it should be fairly apparent that the missions are not working as smoothly as hoped! MCB, lazy, overworked legend that he is, really should have put more umph in the visbit system. There are all sorts of solutions to this problem he could have done with minimal trouble, and I say that as a Mac programmer. But oh well, bitching and moaning won't fix anything, and I think I've done quite enough of that already.

**

What is wrong with the missions?

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"Was it love, or was it the idea of being in love?"-Pink Floyd
"Peace is not an absence of war, it is a virtue, a state of mind, a disposition for benevolence, confidence, justice." -Baruch Spinoza
Russell for President 2020!

Quote

Originally posted by Russell Quintero:
**What is wrong with the missions?

**

I think he means the visbit system in general. While it is an upgrade from EVO, it is still somewhat restrictive. Better than before, though.

_bomb

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"I want to tell you about a time I almost died...."

Quote

Originally posted by Bomb:
**I think he means the visbit system in general. While it is an upgrade from EVO, it is still somewhat restrictive. Better than before, though.

_bomb

**

he just seemed to imply that the missions were having issues with the visbits, so I figured that one of us might be able to tell him a way around it if he described the issue.

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"Was it love, or was it the idea of being in love?"-Pink Floyd
"Peace is not an absence of war, it is a virtue, a state of mind, a disposition for benevolence, confidence, justice." -Baruch Spinoza
Russell for President 2020!

The problem with missions and visbits is simply that you can not use any of the "random spob of Government" type destinations do not function for Spobs that inhabit transient (ie: visbit-ed) systems. The engine simply won't pick these as viable locations, regardless of government or class affiliation. With our solar system, every system is transient, rendering useless the random spob picking system. What I was trying to do is simply trick the engine into thinking that the spobs exist permanently, making them valid locations. My conclusion: doesn't work. Too bad. Now we get to hard-code everything- but it'll be worth it. Really, it has simply forced a paradigm shift.

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~Charlie

Quote

Originally posted by Masamune:
**The problem with missions and visbits is simply that you can not use any of the "random spob of Government" type destinations do not function for Spobs that inhabit transient (ie: visbit-ed) systems. The engine simply won't pick these as viable locations, regardless of government or class affiliation. With our solar system, every system is transient, rendering useless the random spob picking system. What I was trying to do is simply trick the engine into thinking that the spobs exist permanently, making them valid locations. My conclusion: doesn't work. Too bad. Now we get to hard-code everything- but it'll be worth it. Really, it has simply forced a paradigm shift.

**

Actually, if I had read the bible correctly, you shouldn't have a problem assuming no planets gets destroyed or anything.

Say you use 12 different systems that contain Earth, representing each month. At any given time there is only one of the 12 systems present via visbit. Then the planet Earth will always be there regardless of the visbits, and the Nova engine should be able to pick it as a random location.

Plan B:
If that doesn't work, or say you do need to destroy a planet at some point in the game, then just make another system with super high ID that will always contain Earth, always visible, but cannot be visited or landed upon (no links). Then make sure for the rest of the systems that contain Earth, only one at most is visible at any given time. So you'll have at most 2 systems that has Earth, and the one you land in is always the system with smaller resource ID, so engine will never get it wrong.

Either of plan A and B should work, and shouldn't involve a redesign of your paradigm (at least in terms of missions). Let me know if I've made wrong assumptions or remembered the bible wrong.

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Neither A nor B work, Pan Sola- those are exactly the things I've tried. With A, the problem is that Nova isn't smart enough to realize that Earth exists all the time- it just sees that it only exists in systems with visbits, it doesn't do any more work- Earth is transient.

B was why I started this thread- it doesn't work either. Nova is not fooled by the second, static instance. I don't think Nova picks the first instance it finds, either- even with my static instance numbered very high, I seemed to end up in the wrong system about 50% of the time.

I tested all this quite thoroughly- it's quite frustrating. However, if you'd like to double check, please do- my plug is fairly complex already- it's hard to say I had everything exactly right- but I'm pretty sure I did.

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~Charlie